Time to recognise the Taliban are the Government of Afghanistan.

One of the failings of Western Democracy in my opinion, is the failure to admit that odious regimes can work.

In our hubris we have often removed regimes that we don't like, such as Saddam, because they don't fit in with our values and standards.

The fact that countries under these regimes manage to function, and tend to fail as a State when those regimes are removed escapes our leaders. De-Ba'athification was a catastrophe, for example, despite stemming from noble aims as removing the "strong men" led to internecine strife and thousands of deaths.

We are now faced with an odious regime being the de facto government of Afghanistan, a country that faces biblical levels of poverty and imminent famine.

Although HMG provides aid (see below) , its sticking a plaster on a sucking chest wound.

HMG and the UN refuse to deal with the Taliban. The UN has imposed asset freezes on Afghanistan. There are no humanitarian exemptions to the sanctions regime placed on the Taliban in 2015.

The UN will provide aid ( see below) but will not unfreeze $9.5 bn of Afghan assets. Aid is not enough, the country is on the edge of collapse and faces tens or even hundreds of thousands of deaths from starvation.

The regime in power is odious to our standards, but we need to face reality and accept the Taliban are in charge. The West spent $3 trillion replacing the Taliban with the Taliban: its time we faced reality and realised that sticking to the high moral ground will lead to deaths on a scale that would make African famines look like detox.





 
I have no doubt that such a thing will happen. After all, the East German state ended up being recognised as a sovereign nation. And that was back in a time when the world was a much saner place.
 

W21A

LE
Book Reviewer
We need to stop going round the world and trying to impose democracy and western standards on countries and societies that don't want nor understand it. As for aid, I think it is time that Arab and related countries need to face up to what THEY have caused with their support for the Taliban.
 
We need to stop going round the world and trying to impose democracy and western standards on countries and societies that don't want nor understand it. As for aid, I think it is time that Arab and related countries need to face up to what THEY have caused with their support for the Taliban.
Especially Pakistan.
 

Dwarf

LE
Book Reviewer
Essentially we should have recognised them when Ivan left.

That may, only may, have avoided all the following problems.
 
One of the failings of Western Democracy in my opinion, is the failure to admit that odious regimes can work.

In our hubris we have often removed regimes that we don't like, such as Saddam, because they don't fit in with our values and standards.

The fact that countries under these regimes manage to function, and tend to fail as a State when those regimes are removed escapes our leaders. De-Ba'athification was a catastrophe, for example, despite stemming from noble aims as removing the "strong men" led to internecine strife and thousands of deaths.

We are now faced with an odious regime being the de facto government of Afghanistan, a country that faces biblical levels of poverty and imminent famine.

Although HMG provides aid (see below) , its sticking a plaster on a sucking chest wound.

HMG and the UN refuse to deal with the Taliban. The UN has imposed asset freezes on Afghanistan. There are no humanitarian exemptions to the sanctions regime placed on the Taliban in 2015.

The UN will provide aid ( see below) but will not unfreeze $9.5 bn of Afghan assets. Aid is not enough, the country is on the edge of collapse and faces tens or even hundreds of thousands of deaths from starvation.

The regime in power is odious to our standards, but we need to face reality and accept the Taliban are in charge. The West spent $3 trillion replacing the Taliban with the Taliban: its time we faced reality and realised that sticking to the high moral ground will lead to deaths on a scale that would make African famines look like detox.






I think it's time that the Taliban recognised they're the government of Afghastlystan and sorted their shit out instead of the constant hand wringing of the Western media warning us that the country is "dangling by a thread' and implying it's our responsibility.
 
Essentially we should have recognised them when Ivan left.

That may, only may, have avoided all the following problems.
Tbh it wouldn't have been possible at the time anyway. Even if the political will had been there to do so. Afghanistan isn't a nation of people who share the same beliefs. They are a nation of different tribes who generally only share one thing in common with their neighbours, and that is their religion. The only other thing that unites the people of Afghanistan is when johnny foreigner invades their lands.
 
Rcognise them yes , shovel loads of money at them no
 

Whining Civvy

LE
Book Reviewer
Recognise - yes. No problem. They won and all that. Support them and give them cash? Get stuffed.
 
One of the failings of Western Democracy in my opinion, is the failure to admit that odious regimes can work.

In our hubris we have often removed regimes that we don't like, such as Saddam, because they don't fit in with our values and standards.

The fact that countries under these regimes manage to function, and tend to fail as a State when those regimes are removed escapes our leaders. De-Ba'athification was a catastrophe, for example, despite stemming from noble aims as removing the "strong men" led to internecine strife and thousands of deaths.

We are now faced with an odious regime being the de facto government of Afghanistan, a country that faces biblical levels of poverty and imminent famine.

Although HMG provides aid (see below) , its sticking a plaster on a sucking chest wound.

HMG and the UN refuse to deal with the Taliban. The UN has imposed asset freezes on Afghanistan. There are no humanitarian exemptions to the sanctions regime placed on the Taliban in 2015.

The UN will provide aid ( see below) but will not unfreeze $9.5 bn of Afghan assets. Aid is not enough, the country is on the edge of collapse and faces tens or even hundreds of thousands of deaths from starvation.

The regime in power is odious to our standards, but we need to face reality and accept the Taliban are in charge. The West spent $3 trillion replacing the Taliban with the Taliban: its time we faced reality and realised that sticking to the high moral ground will lead to deaths on a scale that would make African famines look like detox.






So they will magically become competent administrators if we say "Ok you're legit."? How does having frozen assets prevent Afghan Farmers from farming?
 
Give or take the odd famine, North Korea is far better organised.
Thinking about N Korea for a minute though. They have been strangely quiet since the orange one's departure. I can't recall the last that they were rattling their sabres on the world stage. Is this because Rocket man is growing up, or because they want to keep below the radar whilst they work on building their nuclear weapons?
 
Thinking about N Korea for a minute though. They have been strangely quiet since the orange one's departure. I can't recall the last that they were rattling their sabres on the world stage. Is this because Rocket man is growing up, or because they want to keep below the radar whilst they work on building their nuclear weapons?
Not quite.



 
Afghanistan is perfectly capable of growing sufficient food for itself yet farmers continue to grow opium poppies for export. Afghan markets are full of fruit and vegetables,so they are capable of doing farming and feeding themselves. It's up to them, not Britain.
 
And yet the people and leaders of both countries suffer from the same problem. They both worship a load of old b******s.
But the Koreans are all one people, north and south. A South Korean will always say that they are from Korea, not South Korea as they regard themselves still as one people. Its just the communists they hate. That was what enabled the South to go from a third world country with a military dictatorship and after a harsh 35 year Japanese occupation and a devastating civil war to a first world modern democracy. That and religion doesn't play a great part with it being about half christian and half buddist although a long dead (4.000) Chinese bloke called Confucius still has a lot of influence. If the communist government collapsed it wouldn't take too much to unite both countries. There is actually a ministry in the South Korean Government planning for it.

Afghanistan is just a number of warring tribes with a medieval religion living a medieval lifestyle. It appears to be beyond help. leave them to it. They made their choice. It didn't have to be like that. Look at Oman, it really was a medieval country until 1970 until the coup which brought Sultan Qaboos to power which resulted in him dragging it into the 20th century. Now it is one of the big success stories in the Islamic world. A showcase. Malaysia too which has a large Chinese and Indian minorities living in a muslim country.
 

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