In 1914 the Irish were promised Home Rule by virtue of the 'Government of Ireland Act (4 & 5 Geo.5 C 90) , 1914' - the first parliamentary Act passed into law to provide for devolved government in the UK. But....due to the onset of WWI, a simultaneous 'Suspension' Act was also introduced to suspend implementation for the duration of the War (thought by many to take only around six months).
All this talk of separation referenda reminds me of my northern neighbors here.
In 1995 Quebec had a referendum as to whether to leave Canada. It was very close. I understand from Canadian friends that word was passed to Francophone RCAF pilots that if the vote was Oui they should fire up their RCAF planes and fly to Montreal. As it turned out Non beat Oui by about 1%
I seem to recall that a few members of Parliament from the west tabled a bill to exclude Quebec from Canada whatever the result of the referendum. Asked for the reason they said they were tired of the whinging from Quebec.
Being American I do not have a horse in this race. I visited NI a four times between 1967 and 1971, a beautiful place. I visited briefly on Monday, January 31st, 1972. My ferry to Larne arrived at dawn and as I had been on trains from Edinburgh to Glasgow and Glasgow to Stranraer on the 30th I had no idea of the events in Derry. Belfast seemed a bit tense that Monday so I decided to take the next train to Dublin from Belfast despite a delay as apparently the army had to remove an IED from the tracks. Interesting times! I did not visit NI for years after that as I did not think it was a place I wanted to visit with a wife and child in tow.
I next visited NI last summer, touring with my son. Beautiful place, nice people and peaceful. My son had booked us into hotels far posher than would have chosen but the trip was his birthday present to me. I got the impression that most there were sick of the paramilitaries of any sort. Only mementos of the troubles seemed to be red hand flags and murals in the area just east of Belfast on our drive to Slieve Donard in Down.
It is hard to imagine NI being a success as an independent country. In size it is a bit larger than Montenegro and bit smaller than East Timor. In population it is larger than Bahrain and smaller than Latvia. If not part of the UK would the industries flourish?? In addition, if independent, they would be without the moderating influence of the people in Whitehall and could sadly descend to the troubled times of the 70's which would be sad.
As to NI uniting with the RoI I a not sure the people of the Republic would really like that. Things are pretty good there at the moment and would they really want the headaches of incorporating a population that might resort to violence. Status Quo, perhaps with direct rule from Westminster might be the best solution.
Of course I still do not comprehend why a people who have fought intermittently for centuries to stop being ruled by Britain but are apparently delighted to be ruled from Brussels by a bunch of French and German politicians so they can provide employment to a bunch of Poles and Lithuanians.
Not my problem but I a beautiful place with nice people and wish them all well. And peace!!!
You certainly bloody do.
I had my first visit to Glasgee as a grown-up some 20 years ago and was shocked by the sheer nastiness of some of the sectarianism - which seemed even worse than in the Province
I voted for Home Rule from Stormont But I would happily accept the democratic wishes of a majority if they wished to leave the UK and join with the Republic.
I used to chat to an Irishman in my local pub until he eventually chose to move back to the Republic and this issue would occasionally be discussed. He was of the view that a majority of the Republic wouldn't want to take responsibility for Northern Ireland.
There were a number of reasons for that including economic, secretarian and logistical matters.
Are there any polls that have been conducted that might shed soon light on what the results might be in the event of a referendum or would that still be an unwelcome and dangerous inquiry in some parts of the Province?
I was chatting with Albert Reynolds, former Eire PM, one evening in the late 90s. He'd been out of office a few years by then.
With a big smile he said " the biggest enthusiasts you'll find for Irish unity are in the Treasury at Whitehall, and the biggest opponents are in the Dublin government! "
I'd still like my resettlement grant. Pension, benefits and leaving bonus, go to my spiritual home of Barcelona.
I'll go quietly.
The rest of you can enjoy the influx of loyalists and 'British people who aren't willing and can't, live under the yoke of an Irish republic'
Flute bands, fascists and bible bashing nut cases. Ex cops, ex soldiers and ex UDR.
It'll certainly liven up the neighbourhood.
My comments in italics, bearing in mind I am not a civil servant nor the PM.
If they are retarded then offer some of your own, its not if but when, the province is a financial drain beyond any perceived benefit. There will come a time (especially now Princess Tony has secured peace (Ha ha) ) that we will start to look at the numbers and if the Scots go then we will have to consider it seriously, so instead of naysaying come up with something a bit more palatable and think on this, eventually the majority will be on the other foot and you may have no choice.
Was discussing the numbers recently with someone quite high up who has UK Treasury/NIO knowledge.
We are a pimple in overall budgetary terms, something Hammond would spend 30 seconds on before closing the red box at night
Its your poll you bellend... It's not my job to edit your naive poll options. It’s always best to do a little homework prior to discussing a topic you know f*ck all about. Just because you have achieved the dizzy heights in life of being an Arrse moderator won't prevent me from pointing out that you seem like a gammon shaded, dribbling idiot with very little understanding of this topic.
I don’t dispute that turnout for nationalists has been rising while the unionist vote has been falling. But it would be naive to think that this translates to reunification via the border poll. There’s no risk involved when it comes to assembly or Westminster elections but there is a risk involved when a border poll in the offering. The Scottish referendum was a good example of this. The SNP had a majority in 2011 and took all but three of the Westminster seats in 2015. Yet the majority of Scots voted to stay in the UK in the referendum. Bear in mind also that the 2016 assembly elections didn’t make pleasant reading for SF. This about about realism. Simply pretending NI can be booted out of the union is absurd and counterproductive.
Don’t be surprised if reunification is set back by another few decades because many in the south are not remotely interested in the issue while they are bearing the brunt of EU membership.
I have seen no one put forward a reasoned case for a UI. Indeed, as Sinn Fein are the most vocal cheer leaders for such an outcome, the whole case is lost with regard to Unionists. It is like OJ Simpson arguing for domestic violence legislation.
Meanwhile, looking outside of Arrse (something a lot of members forget to do) at the real world we need to acknowledge that the people of Northern Ireland have the right to choose their future. Not some English larger louts who post stupid polls like this one. Either stay in the UK or in an entirely new country with their neighbours south of the border.
It seems to me that the appetite just isn't there to start all over again and build a new country from scratch - particularly since the foundations would be extremely unstable from the outset - and giving up all the advantages of being in the UK for a roll of the dice in a united Ireland which, frankly, one struggles to imagine being anything but an economic disaster.
The idea that a UI is 'inevitable' (besides being a tired old song that hardcore Republicans have been singing for 50 or 60 years now) flies in the face of all reality. It is no more inevitable than the US ceding Texas or California back to Mexico - are there demographic, historical and emotional factors in favour of that scenario? Yes. Is it likely? One would have to say not.
It wasn’t just Catholics, although it was no picnic. Jobs for Protestants went through the Orange order, if you didn’t tug the forelock you were in trouble too.
Things were starting to improve when ONeill became PM and then it all went to shit.
One man one vote affected Protestants too. The extra vote being a business/trade one. . Catholics were entitled to it too. And housing conditions were similar in Belfast whether catholic or Protestant. Just a different slogan on the walls.
Even in the 70s walking through the peace line from one to the other. I expected it to be like a refugee camp. It was exactly the same.
Decades ago, recently arrived officer during a search on the lower falls, surveying the area. Looked around him and said something like ‘My God, how do people live like this’. I think the soldier who was standing beside him could have explained it to him.
But there’s been a lot of changes mostly for the better. I got bushwhacked by a friends kid brother recently. Now all grown up, he made me promise to go and see his mum, new house, Springfield Rd.
Had tea and biccies, got a tour of the house, choice of kitchen, fireplace and gas something or other. Other brother showed up, serious Shinner.
It turns out to keep things straight, if they built so many catholic houses they built so many Protestant houses. Only in the Protestant houses there was no choice of fixtures. The local organisation took a levy of so much per house, which made it impossible. I’m not saying the Republicans didn’t get a security payment, but certainly not enough to impact on the quality of the housing.
But that's how all taxes work, the public sector takes from the private productive industries and spends it on the public non productive ones. Income tax is the same, if you work in the public sector you don't pay income tax you just recycle it. With the regions if the government doesn't put money into the poor bits they all go to London looking for work and it gets a bit silly and London prices pump inflation etc. Red hander is right you might as well object to the weather.
I think the difference is that most parts of UK accept they are part of a single entity. In Northern Ireland there is no real connection to the rest of the UK and Loyalism does not equate to loyalty to this country only a selfish loyalty to themselves and their squalid way of life. The Catholics are no better.
Because we'll need the EU and the ECB again. We're tied to the EU and so have to sing from the same hymn sheet. But also there's a hope or belief that Brexit brings Irish unification a bit closer. And all sides in Irish politics are committed to that goal to one extent or another. Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have the same DNA as Sinn Féin. FG was formed (many years on) from the Shinners that supported the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1922. FF was formed in 1926 from the Shinners that lost the Civil War but who wanted to abandon SF's abstention from Dáil Éireann. They all take slightly different paths and do less wittering about unification in the South because very few people give a Fiddler's on a day to day basis. But essentially all Parties support the long term goal of unification. As long as the Tories don't invent a hard border, Leo Varadker doesn't care one way or the other what the British do.
Agreed. We have a deal, I cheerfully contribute when the pipe band rattles a bucket. In return they tramp round the far end of the village. (Considering this deal was hammered out 20 years ago at around 2am in a bar on a Sunday morning. I’ve nothing in writing, either they honoured the deal or they can’t find my house)