Time to cut Ulster loose?

Should NI be cut loose

  • Time for a province independence referendum

    Votes: 25 31.3%
  • Union with the south

    Votes: 21 26.3%
  • Commonwealth status

    Votes: 9 11.3%
  • Full rule from Westminster

    Votes: 19 23.8%
  • Home rule from Stormont

    Votes: 20 25.0%

  • Total voters
    80

ugly

LE
Moderator
#1
Perhaps in light of recent developments with the EU and the unionist parties getting all upset about the border its time we had an independence referendum to sort out the status of the province and gave them full independence or some sort of channel island like status.
Please feel free to vote, but remember this isn't the naafi and try to explain your views in a civilised manner
 
#2
There’s already provision for this within the Belfast agreement. It’s not a simple case though of “cutting it loose”. There’ll need to be an agreement within the ROI for taking NI on. While there’s a fair chance such a referendum might achieve the necessary vote in the south, it’s certainly not a given.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#3
Of course the views of the Republic are very important, it would be crushing for many people if they turned down a united country but equally fair.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#4
There’s already provision for this within the Belfast agreement. It’s not a simple case though of “cutting it loose”. There’ll need to be an agreement within the ROI for taking NI on. While there’s a fair chance such a referendum might achieve the necessary vote in the south, it’s certainly not a given.
Is there an option for full independence for the province in the agreement?
 
#5
I don’t believe there is. For good reason too. I don’t think that would be a goer for either side. Although my own take on the DUP and Sinn Féin is that they’re both similar in that despite their claim to be for a United Kingdom/United Ireland they’re both quite happy being the big fish in the small pond here. They’re more federalist than they would let on. It will ultimately be decided on purely on economics rather than politics. If people feel they’ve a better standard of education, healthcare, living standards i think they’ll be less inclined than previous generations here to worry about which flag is flying over the government buildings that are administering it.
 
#6
Being American I do not have a horse in this race. I visited NI a four times between 1967 and 1971, a beautiful place. I visited briefly on Monday, January 31st, 1972. My ferry to Larne arrived at dawn and as I had been on trains from Edinburgh to Glasgow and Glasgow to Stranraer on the 30th I had no idea of the events in Derry. Belfast seemed a bit tense that Monday so I decided to take the next train to Dublin from Belfast despite a delay as apparently the army had to remove an IED from the tracks. Interesting times! I did not visit NI for years after that as I did not think it was a place I wanted to visit with a wife and child in tow.
I next visited NI last summer, touring with my son. Beautiful place, nice people and peaceful. My son had booked us into hotels far posher than would have chosen but the trip was his birthday present to me. I got the impression that most there were sick of the paramilitaries of any sort. Only mementos of the troubles seemed to be red hand flags and murals in the area just east of Belfast on our drive to Slieve Donard in Down.

It is hard to imagine NI being a success as an independent country. In size it is a bit larger than Montenegro and bit smaller than East Timor. In population it is larger than Bahrain and smaller than Latvia. If not part of the UK would the industries flourish?? In addition, if independent, they would be without the moderating influence of the people in Whitehall and could sadly descend to the troubled times of the 70's which would be sad.

As to NI uniting with the RoI I a not sure the people of the Republic would really like that. Things are pretty good there at the moment and would they really want the headaches of incorporating a population that might resort to violence. Status Quo, perhaps with direct rule from Westminster might be the best solution.

Of course I still do not comprehend why a people who have fought intermittently for centuries to stop being ruled by Britain but are apparently delighted to be ruled from Brussels by a bunch of French and German politicians so they can provide employment to a bunch of Poles and Lithuanians.

Not my problem but I a beautiful place with nice people and wish them all well. And peace!!!
 
#7
Being American I do not have a horse in this race. I visited NI a four times between 1967 and 1971, a beautiful place. I visited briefly on Monday, January 31st, 1972. My ferry to Larne arrived at dawn and as I had been on trains from Edinburgh to Glasgow and Glasgow to Stranraer on the 30th I had no idea of the events in Derry. Belfast seemed a bit tense that Monday so I decided to take the next train to Dublin from Belfast despite a delay as apparently the army had to remove an IED from the tracks. Interesting times! I did not visit NI for years after that as I did not think it was a place I wanted to visit with a wife and child in tow.
I next visited NI last summer, touring with my son. Beautiful place, nice people and peaceful. My son had booked us into hotels far posher than would have chosen but the trip was his birthday present to me. I got the impression that most there were sick of the paramilitaries of any sort. Only mementos of the troubles seemed to be red hand flags and murals in the area just east of Belfast on our drive to Slieve Donard in Down.

It is hard to imagine NI being a success as an independent country. In size it is a bit larger than Montenegro and bit smaller than East Timor. In population it is larger than Bahrain and smaller than Latvia. If not part of the UK would the industries flourish?? In addition, if independent, they would be without the moderating influence of the people in Whitehall and could sadly descend to the troubled times of the 70's which would be sad.

As to NI uniting with the RoI I a not sure the people of the Republic would really like that. Things are pretty good there at the moment and would they really want the headaches of incorporating a population that might resort to violence. Status Quo, perhaps with direct rule from Westminster might be the best solution.

Of course I still do not comprehend why a people who have fought intermittently for centuries to stop being ruled by Britain but are apparently delighted to be ruled from Brussels by a bunch of French and German politicians so they can provide employment to a bunch of Poles and Lithuanians.

Not my problem but I a beautiful place with nice people and wish them all well. And peace!!!
I was going to repeat my views from the parent thread but I cannot add to your post. Great post.
 
#8
Would an independence referendum have the potential to cause more sectarian violence over there, and have we the resources to cope with that now if it en masse ?
 
#9
Perhaps in light of recent developments with the EU and the unionist parties getting all upset about the border its time we had an independence referendum to sort out the status of the province and gave them full independence or some sort of channel island like status.
Please feel free to vote, but remember this isn't the naafi and try to explain your views in a civilised manner
It's Northern Ireland, not Ulster.

A totally independent NI probably wouldn't be a viable option. The place is heavily subsidised by England as is so it's unlikely to be able to survive alone.

SF routinely call for a Border Poll these days, especially since the Brexit vote. They seem to think that the fact that the majority in NI voted remain translates to a majority voting themselves out of the UK. I think they might be disappointed at the result of such a referendum.

South of the border, I think a referendum would probably be carried with a significant minority voting No. Which would leave us in a bit of a bind with having to absorb 800,000 píssed off Loyalists into the Republic.
 
#10
The majority of NI residents want to remain in the UK. The absorption of NI into the republic would be a massive headache for the latter. NI can't survive on its own. No one wants to do anything that will cause the sectarian violence to kick off in earnest again.

Oh, & ---- Sinn ------- Fein up the ------- ---- with a stiff wire brush, the demented -----, rather than give them anything that they can pin their hopes on.
 
#11
Just throwing it out there for discussion......

The Independent Republic of Scotland & Northern Ireland
 
#14
I don’t believe there is. For good reason too. I don’t think that would be a goer for either side. Although my own take on the DUP and Sinn Féin is that they’re both similar in that despite their claim to be for a United Kingdom/United Ireland they’re both quite happy being the big fish in the small pond here. They’re more federalist than they would let on. It will ultimately be decided on purely on economics rather than politics. If people feel they’ve a better standard of education, healthcare, living standards i think they’ll be less inclined than previous generations here to worry about which flag is flying over the government buildings that are administering it.
Surely you mean "Fleg" ;-)
 
#15
Any referendum for separation should include the whole of the UK.
 
#16
I voted for Home Rule from Stormont But I would happily accept the democratic wishes of a majority if they wished to leave the UK and join with the Republic.

I used to chat to an Irishman in my local pub until he eventually chose to move back to the Republic and this issue would occasionally be discussed. He was of the view that a majority of the Republic wouldn't want to take responsibility for Northern Ireland.

There were a number of reasons for that including economic, secretarian and logistical matters.

Are there any polls that have been conducted that might shed soon light on what the results might be in the event of a referendum or would that still be an unwelcome and dangerous inquiry in some parts of the Province?
 
#17
I still do not comprehend why a people who have fought intermittently for centuries to stop being ruled by Britain but are apparently delighted to be ruled from Brussels by a bunch of French and German politicians so they can provide employment to a bunch of Poles and Lithuanians.
Me neither. I do have chips in the game, and although I would be unhappy at the prospect of no longer being in the United Kingdom, have no issues with the Will of the Majority, which is, after all, what it's been all about for the past hundred years or so.

My principle objection would be in being forced to accept a revolutionary socialist government, under which I would have to mind my p's and q's for fear of retribution; these are not people who value my existence. I have met many of them (or their fathers) and their zealotry (in the cause of a pretty low-utility objective) is spine-chilling.

On balance, if that eventuality came about, and oppression set in, I believe that I would be happy to rummage through the thatch for my rusty sword. Meanwhile, I have a vote, too, and I give it to wee Jeffrey Donaldson (DUP), who's the best of a fairly grisly bunch.
 

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