Time to close down BFG?

Discussion in 'The NAAFI Bar' started by Danny_Dravot, Mar 3, 2006.

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  1. well i for one think it is.

    there are too many people doing very little in BFG at huge expense to the Taxpayer - and i'm not referring to Fd Force units - who all work like trojans!

    the capability generated in BFG is essentially 1 armd div but BFG has tens of thousands of admin and sp staff riding the BFG gravy train.

    every teacher, social worker, civil servant, customs worker etc has to be paid, housed, schooled (kids!), medicated...etc

    BFG is the biggest example of a self licking lollipop ever!

    If 1 div relocated to an underdeveloped part of the UK, the regenaration for that area would be immense, eg, building, housing, schools, retail, med etc.

    Think of - not only the money that we'd save the tax-payer but the addidtional cash inject into the local and national economy. Afterall, we're pumping money into Frau Merkels Motherland - what have the German's everdone for us!

    UKSC(G) is a dinosaur which swallows up manpower and money. HQ ARRC is deploying to HERRICK to justify its existance.
     
  2. Whilst I might not have put it so bluntly, I agree with your sentiments!

    Litotes
     
  3. I don't!

    I believe that Germany has it's right as a forward base of operations, apart from being a "Gucchi" tour....

    Why don't the both of you to volunteer to do all the home postings and give your BFG tours to those who appreciate them?
     
  4. My sentiments exactly, last place on earth I wish to be posted is The UK.

    You'll be wanting to close Cyprus next............
     
  5. Germany a Gucci tour???????
    Now I really feel old, my memories of BAOR were of perpetual fear of not the 3rd Shock Army, but of being stuck in the 'iron triangle' of Verden, Soest and Herford for 12 years.
     
  6. I have thought this since the wall came down. I understand that some of the guys like the tax free cars, loa etc but I just dont see how you can justify it. Not only do we pay people to act as support staff but our soldiers also pump their money into the German economy just by living there. If we brought back our troops we may well be able to up the X factor as there should be a balance with the amount of money saved on loa.
     
  7. sparky8 I'm sorry to say mate you are dreaming. Any so called savings from relocating the Army will just be witheld by Strangley Brown. Remember Options for Change would make the Army "Leaner but Better". What a load of bollox that was. Why wasn't that saving spent on improving the conditions of service for the remainder, or upgrading the MQ stock. And 'The Peace Dividend' after the wall came down. The Army has never been busier in the past 60 years.
     
  8. If you think that any government is going to increase the X factor because of troops leaving Germany then you are sadly naive!

    There will be redundancies like in 1992 - 1994!

    Where are we going to put the troops?

    There are already housing problems with troops in this country now AND it shows that the initiators of this thread haven't a clue what they are on about because we have written agreements with the German state, that say that we need to give so many years notice to vacate!

    I actually think, that Paderborn/Sennelager is 25 years but on the length I am not actually sure!

    In the current state of affairs with world terrorism we need an expiditionary force to be able to strike swiftly to defend Britain and sadly the UK is impracticle!
     
  9. You may want to balance this with the fact that this would be yet another posting location lost. Thus, making another reason not to join up or stay on.

    In the past 20 or so years we have lost some terrfic postings like Berlin, Gibraltar, Hong Kong and Belize. We rarely deploy to the likes of Norway or Turkey anymore on exercise. While I am not exactly enamoured with the idea of pumping several billion pounds in to the German economy every year, people used to join the Army to travel, and see the world, and get away from the crappy, depressing towns where they were brought up and grew up, not to end up 40 or 50 miles away stagging on.

    So, okay, it would be great for the local economy of say Northern England to redeploy 1st Armd Div back to the UK, and, it might indeed bump up the X factor. But, tell me, who the bloody hell would want to spend 22 years in an Infantry or RAC Regiment based in Catterick? Or shuttling between Catterick, Larkhill and Ouston if you are RA? Would the MoD bother anymore to move, say 1 SCOTS from Edinburgh to Warminster, or, 1 MERCIAN from Ternhill to Catterick, when it would be cheaper to leave them there on a permanent basis?
     
  10. As a fluent German speaker who is completely at home in Germany, and who has lived there for many years (Hohne, Fallingbostel, Soest, Duesseldorf, Muensterlager and Herford) I would love to be posted there. But I'm not - I'm here - on this blasted post!

    I do not understand why we are still in Germany pumping money into the German economy and their military bases when the UK military infrastructure is creaking at the seams.

    Litotes
     
  11. Read my second post...

    I too am a fluent German speaker and spent nearly 20 years there!

    My children live there and I am, like you, on a home posting.....

    But it will not change that Germany is vital to the defence of Britain!
     
  12. 1stly...using germany as as FOB??? what are you on?

    Unless we're going to mount offensive ops into Poland, BFG is actually worse than UK as an operating base. ie., shipping is limited to only EMDEN. for air ops, there are no Mil airfields left in BFG so we're permanently in the hands of the German CAA and road-movements have severe restrictions on them which, when flexibility is needed, costs a fortune due the various civil agencies involved.

    Regarding Cyprus...here is a genuine need for an overseas Garrison. the island has huge strategic importance and we must never let it go.

    Don't confuse the delivery of operational capability with quality of life. The MOD doesn't exist to provide soldiers with 'cushy' foreign postings and a tax free life-style - otherwise i'd be the first to sign up for a 3 yr tour of the bahamas.

    Put simply, BFG no longer serves and operational or strategic role.

    it is a financial drain.

    to spin it another way, think of the associated costs of 10 social workers in BFG - quartering, medical, schools, overseas allowances etc etc...and think how that money could be spent on soldiers and there families in the UK?
     
  13. I thought that was the idea behind the "super Garrisons". Regiments will come to a halt in say, Tidworth, Hohne and Catterick, and soldiers will be posted between the Regmients if they want - otherwise they stay in one place. (22 years in Tidworth.....?).

    I agree that if we lost Germany, we would lose some very pleasant postings, but I cannot see the bean-counters including that factor on the balance sheet!

    Litotes
     
  14. The original poster forgets that 1 Div is an armoured division. Within the UK our training areas struggle to cope with the current level of armoured training. Germany gives our armour easy, relatively cheap and regular access to training areas in Poland and the Czech republic, and whilst Hohne and Sennelager aren't quite as good as the old Soltau training area (moonscape) they are still pretty good and there is still access to other parts of the German Army training estate.

    In order to cope with the influx of troops from Germany the complete local infrastructure in the UK would have to be overhauled at wherever the troops end up. The example of trying to move a certain armoured regiment back to the UK with the problems of trying to convince a local council to grant planning permission gives us an indication of the problems.

    The building of more schools, provision of healthcare and other infrastructure facilities will not come out of the Defence Budget (as it currently does) are other Govt Depts really going to care and dig in their pockets? I think not. Say what you like about the SCE and the 'hangers on' teachers; the service they provide is usually better than the UK.
     
  15. Fine - make Germany an unacompanied tour!