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Time the rest of the EU played their part in Afghanistan

#21
Does any body even know what the plan is in Afghanistan to work towards?....I hear democracy ect, but the Afghans have been a tribal society for thousands of years and we are going to change all that in a decade or 2?.....the Chinese have been a civilisation for 5 millenia and they still have not got there.

Or do we fight untill we bleed the palce dry, the only people to really rule the place were the Mongols, and they did it in a way I don't think we'd be allowed to nowadays.
 
#22
"the only people to really rule the place were the Mongols, and they did it in a way I don't think we'd be allowed to nowadays."

How true, bit like the Islam is a religion of peace.
john
Convert of say Hello to my Scimitar.
 
#23
jonwilly said:
"the only people to really rule the place were the Mongols, and they did it in a way I don't think we'd be allowed to nowadays."

How true, bit like the Islam is a religion of peace.
john
Convert of say Hello to my Scimitar.
:?
 
#24
The end of Nato?
A call for more troops in Afghanistan will test the UK's defence resources – and Nato itself – to breaking point

Comments (31)

Robert Fox
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 15 January 2009 18.00 GMT
Article history
The defence secretary John Hutton laid into Britain's European allies in pretty graphic terms today – for failing to stump extra forces to match Barack Obama's troop surge for Afghanistan.

Hutton told defence journalists that he was revealing "behind the scenes discussions" with Nato partners because they had come up with nothing. "We cannot expect the Americans to do all the heavy lifting in air support and transport," he said.

He left strong hints that the UK will after all be sending more troops as Obama "surges" some 30,000 extra US combat troops into Afghanistan. He did not deny that this is the figure Obama and the key strategic commander General David Petraeus are thinking about. From chatter around the bazaars inside the MoD, the UK could send an extra brigade of some 3500 troops by the middle of the summer.

Hutton described the question of more troops for Afghanistan as a "defining issue" for the future of Nato, which celebrates its 60th anniversary this spring. This will be the first major European summit attended by the newly sworn-in President Obama
More on the link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/15/afghanistan-nato-troop-surge
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#26
End of Nato - Yes
The only people who are interested in Nato are the former Easter Block countries who see it as a way to be protected from Putin if he ever decides to put the old Eastern Block back together

Likewise I'm sure most member nations veiwed it as much the same nobody ever thought they would have to actually fight it was something to hide behind - like a small boy on the playground to a bully - you attack me and my mates will jump on you

We need to make our minds up soon either join the US direct and scrap NATO or join a European Army and accept we will be doing all the overseas fighting on behalf of our allies
 
#27
An insight into the extraordinary intensity of operations for most British ground troops was revealed by the commander of the 2nd Battalion the Parachute Regiment battle group in the upper Helmand valley last summer, Lt Col Joe Sullivan, in a presentation in London this week. His group of 1200 took over 100 casualties, including fatalities.

He told the audience at the Royal United Services Institute that most soldiers in the rifle companies under his command could expect to fight for most days in forward positions, with daily battles for more than a month on the end. "This is the norm of service in Afghanistan now." He said that under his command a soldier had a one-in-58 chance of being killed or seriously injured."

So will the Armed Forces Pay Review Body take this into account when they make their recommendations shortly?
 
#28
Skynet said:
An insight into the extraordinary intensity of operations for most British ground troops was revealed by the commander of the 2nd Battalion the Parachute Regiment battle group in the upper Helmand valley last summer, Lt Col Joe Sullivan, in a presentation in London this week. His group of 1200 took over 100 casualties, including fatalities.

He told the audience at the Royal United Services Institute that most soldiers in the rifle companies under his command could expect to fight for most days in forward positions, with daily battles for more than a month on the end. "This is the norm of service in Afghanistan now." He said that under his command a soldier had a one-in-58 chance of being killed or seriously injured."

So will the Armed Forces Pay Review Body take this into account when they make their recommendations shortly?
No!
 
#29
PartTimePongo said:
You have to give them an incentive. Where is the incentive for other EU nations to really commit to this?
Exactly. Our current course of action is doomed as we fail to take account of tribal realities, the fact that Pakistan and Afghanistan cannot co-exist with current borders and our unwillingness to deal with the drugs issue. They see this and decide not to waste money and lives. Who can blame them ?
 
#30
Disagree, they are not dependable allies and never will be. Agree with your thoughts about Afg/Pak/ hopeless policy regarding drugs though.

I am liking the directness of Hutton. Hope President Obama is watching and listening to the european NATO debate.

Edited to add that I understand a change of direction regarding drug policy in Afg is on the cards, not holding breath though...
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
#31
I seem to remember reading that the southern border of Afghanistan is rather a grey area in diplomatic terms. Can't remember the details, something to do with plebiscites excluding many factions.. Anyone know the score?
 
#32
Flight said:
I seem to remember reading that the southern border of Afghanistan is rather a grey area in diplomatic terms. Can't remember the details, something to do with plebiscites excluding many factions.. Anyone know the score?
The Durand line is a meaningless line on a map. You need to look at the ethnic, tribal, linguistic and religious maps to gain an idea of what the place really looks like. And it's a mess. A hodgepodge of different groups which have never had a single central authority and have a world view we moved past in Europe 500 years ago or more. To them the words "Pakistani" or "Afghan" are meaningless; what matters is the detail - which, by and large, we can't or won't get our heads round. .
 
#33
What are we in NATO for exactly? I often thought in bfg days would our partners really be up for it in facing the warsaw pact,as the years have passed by and with the situ in the STAN...the answer is no but with certain exceptions like holland,denmark,estonia,canada who are prepared to get their hands dirty,in other words its the usual crowd who do the fighting.After the PARAS "alamo" experience in 2006 in helmand on leaving i understand lots of them had to be restrained in kabul as they saw german troops amongst others having a ball! after what they had been through they should have been allowed let rip :x
 

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