"Time Off" on Annual Camp

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by OldSnowy, Oct 10, 2005.

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  1. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Now I know I've been in a while, and done 20+ Camps, but I am still not certain about the rules - if any exist - for getting a day off, or even half a day off, during Camp. Most Bn/Regt Camps programme one in, unless they are part of a Very Big Exercise. Every course I have been on certainly has free time written in - usually the middle weekend

    Does any of the assembled ARRSE brain power know if there are any reules and regs on this?

    Reason = Our half-day off this year was cancelled - after the exercise began - by a Big Cheese as we "are here to work". I can't help thinking that this has not done my Sub-Unit retention any good whatsoever, but in this case I can only do what I am ordered.
  2. This is from TA Regs On Armynet.



    An average of at least 6 hours work a day, including Saturdays and Sundays, is to be carried out during annual in camp training, or during an attachment to a Regular Army unit or to another TA unit or to the headquarters of an individual’s own unit

    :cry: Looks Like we are not entitled to one :cry:
  3. We got exactly the same. New CO "you are here to provide training not here to have time off. If you need to work on Sunday (the R&R day) for next week then so be it, you'll have time off next Monday when you get back".

    No we won't, we have civvie jobs and have 2 weeks work to catch up on.
  4. I've heard that attitude expressed towards PSIs from Regular CO's, and the odd comment from an embittered Training Major towards the TA troops... :)

    I do think it all depends upon the training. I don't think I've ever been on a course that didn't have some time off built into it, even if it was only half a day.

    Annual Unit exercises are different - I'm sure everyone who has attended a UK/Germany FTX has found that their "day" off has varied quitel wildly, but I don't think I've ever been on an FTX that didn't allow at least a half day.
  5. I didn’t get any time off on my annual camp either, I’m not complaining though I was trade training, 2 weeks almost felt like a rushed job.
    We more than made up for it in the evenings though :- a few (yeah right :D ) drinks in the NAAFI each night and 3 nights on the piss in town, even saw one of my old PSIs’ in the local strip bar :lol:
  6. I'd love to do a 6 hours working during camp, thought it started @ 0630 and finished around 2000!

    Was he a better stripper than a PSI :lol:
  7. I'd like to do 6 hours a day on camp too. Its usually 23 on, 1 off if your lucky and thats when you should be driving !! :p
  8. Note the important wording: an AVERAGE of at least 6 hours per day with this time frame to include Saturdays and Sundays. Translated into civvy speak, this means a minimum of 42 hours per week. If you work as little as 7 hours per day, then the Regs allow for a full day off per week - i.e. 2 R&R days over the course of a 15 day Camp. As ever, getting time off during Camp is a priviledge, not a right and will depend on the workload. Switched-on bosses should be able to balance the work with getting maximum efficiency by resting the troops. Not getting at least one day off shows that either your bosses don't have the interest of the troops at heart (bad management) or have themselves been spammed by such a higher boss. Bitching between officers unfortunately ultimately ends up with the lower echelons taking the brunt.

    In my lot, it falls to the SNCOs to ensure that at least the JRs get time off, even though SSgts and above often have to work through. While not the ideal, we don't gripe as our forebears took the same line and we hope that the upcoming SNCOs will have the same regard for their lambs.
  9. On a slight tangent, does anyone else get a bit annoyed by the complete lack of a headshed on Mondays? "It's our only day off, you guys only have to work the weekend" etc etc.
  10. ^Moi, oui.

    Then in the next sentence they start talking about golf on Wednesday
  11. The point isn't whether we should get R&R or not, the point is you don't suddenly drop it from the program. You don't take away rewards! It is a minor thing but it affects morale in a big way. I'm fcuking angry and I wasn't there.
    If any of you fcuking stupid cnuts are reading this I have 3 words RETENTION! RETENTION! RETENTION!

    You just don't fcuking get it do ya! Can't wait til I'm back in the Battalion, jeez I'm gonna be a real pain in the arrse!
  12. I seem to recall a "no more than 10% time off" caveat; which means no more than 1.5 days over an Annual Camp.

    Something similar caused a huge stramash at one of our Bn OTXs in France; Trg Maj (lovely bloke, but not exactly a Black Belt in "stunning training") had pushed hard to get the attendance up; big sales drive from PSIs, CO, and Trg Maj, marketed on the 48hr R&R package, and the 48hr Adv Trg package. This being the height of summer in the South of France, the outline "green" programme was "day starts at 6am, finishes at 4pm".

    Several things then went wrong... Fmn HQ decided that there was too little green training going on. Maybe they were still f***ed off at the CO for pointing out to the visiting Sec of State the lunacy of Div planning on a road move for all Pax, from Scotland to the Massif Central of France 8O, rather than chartering an aircraft (only a hundred grand or so, and not much more than the alternative of three days loss of usable MTDs for 400 all ranks, with the retention benefits of those days spent on a bus rather than on training. A cynic would suggest, however, that buses are easier to organise for a Div G4 in search of the easy life).

    So, the Trg Maj had his programme red-inked by Div, some other nightmares happened, and when the Jocks got to the OTX they suddenly discovered that they were working from 6am until 5pm (in 35C heat and cloudless skies - I felt for the chefs, they were working in a 45C cookhouse). The hierarchy discovered that a Trg Conf at 5, a 2ic's Conf at 7, and the resulting OCs conferences at 8pm or so truly f***ed up the day. Oh, and the 30hrs off after the FTX found us in the middle of nowhere, with not enough time to actually achieve much. While (all credit to the Trg Maj) a pretty decent Adv Trg opportunity was laid on during the R&R day, he got all humpty when the takeup rate was low. Funnily enough after a three-day FTX in blistering heat, the Jocks wanted to get their heads down, do their dhobi, and bugger off down the pub instead of spending a day charging around in the sun.

    The whole thing was a massive blow to credibility for Bn HQ at grass roots - the message was very definitely "don't trust them, they'll lie to you". Bn-level training attendance suffered for years afterwards. Having spent a huge amount of time trying to explain what had happened, talk down the doomsayers, make the best of it, and cheer people up, I can assure you that nailing jelly to a wall would have had a better chance of success.

    The moral of the story? Never, never sell what you can't guarantee to deliver.

    Still, I did manage to fake up a "Health and Safety" warning on the dangers of local Dihydrogen Monoxide presence on French training areas (think about it - http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html ) and sneaked it into the CO's in-tray with some amusing expletives when he read it. Even if the Chiefy did prevent it hitting Part One orders.
  13. LOL! That's awesome... I've so many 'Green' friends I'm going to scare the living bejeesus out of them with this!
  14. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Dear All -

    thanks for all the advice, and even the TA Regs. The problem is, I'm afraid, that we are now part of the One Army, except.... when we're not.

    By that I mean things like the subject of this thread. I know that Regs do far longer exercises than 2 weeks, but they don't as a rule go to work again on the Monday, clearing their backlog from the '2 weeks away playing soldiers".

    And don't get me started about the Monday off for 'TOIL' - time off in lieu. Or the Golf Afternoons (Days, usually). Or the compulsory Adv Trg for all Permanent Staff. Or the 'I will claim for every last penny via MMA, etc. But you can't 'cos you're TA'.

    Oh well, things haven't changed that much, have they? As I mentioned on an earlier thread, ignorance of TA Regs is astonishing. In this case, the ignorance is mine as well, but I will ensure that, in the PXR, these points are brought out fully - and forcibly.
  15. Cost of everything, value of nothing!