Time for a third stream?

Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by Desert_SCRA(T), Jun 22, 2007.

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  1. Isn't it time the Corps found another avenue for LE officers?
    The RD heads can fill their boots with the Families/RCMO/QM route.
    The Supervisors can fill their boots fuller with all things Supervisory, TOT/TFC/What ever the wobbly heads call theirs, but there seems to be a growing number of talented WOs in our Corps who did not go supervisory at full screw, and didn't go to Brecon either. In my location alone I know of at least three WOs who have degrees, two of these have Masters. Because these guys didn't fancy making the YofS brews for three years, or ragging themselves on the Lichfield/Bassingbourn/Pirbright circuit they leave after 22 years, rather than face the prospect of stagging on as the Welfare Offr/RCMO. What about a third stream? Junior Staff Offrs or immediate conversions at aged 40 to DE? We lose more talent annually than most Corps can ever dream of having.
  2. Or they could just leave the Army well behind and move into civvy street!
  3. In the immortal words of Egon Spengler

    Dr. Egon Spengler: There's something very important I forgot to tell you.
    Dr. Peter Venkman: What?
    Dr. Egon Spengler: Don't cross the streams.
    Dr. Peter Venkman: Why?
    Dr. Egon Spengler: It would be bad.
    Dr. Peter Venkman: I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean, "bad"?
    Dr. Egon Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
    Dr Ray Stantz: Total protonic reversal.
    Dr. Peter Venkman: Right. That's bad. Okay. All right. Important safety tip. Thanks, Egon

    :twisted: Or have I missed the point again? :roll:
  4. On a more serious note

    Surely for most trades at the moment there are only two streams at Warrant Officer level RD or SPVR so don't they have to sort that first?

    What does that leave for all RMAS DEs?
  5. pretty much spot on actually :wink:

    until they(MOD) realise that 40 is not the end of life, wasting too much talent at 40 only happens in the MOD military side (generalisation), why not extend that to the civvies with MOD as well, i bet it would soon be changed then, that some people do have things to offer over that age not just those that have been fortunate enough to be on LE etc.
  6. If a WO2/WO1 goes LE they can follow the same paths as a DE, so your 3rd option came in last year. So really you could be saying can DE take up traditional LE posts? Or should Tfc or TOT be open to them as their slots are now open to LE.

    I think corps LE slots should be open to all, it is a major failing of the officer corps. You should see some of the documents I've seen from officers regarding ICS (not just Sigs), they bordered on amateur. One which was for a 80 million pound defence project, could not even get the OSI model correct, it was titled XYZ information flow but completely failed to do so. I'm not sure a regular LE could have done better but thats a different (technical officer) argument.
  7. Isn't it time the Corps found another avenue for LE officers?

    Doing what exactly?

  8. If an officer has the correct qualifications then why not but you will find with most of the DE officers in the Corps that their quals are not to the required level for a LE level of expertise. Tfc TOT have years of experience under their respective belts and are not wet behind the ears Captains. Most of the LE's bring quite a bit to the party but it goes without saying that some slip through the net. A DE Captain has neither the skill set nor experience to fulfil a Tfc TOT role.(IMHO) :oops:
  9. My Bold.

    I dont fully understand what your getting at here. Personal development is one thing - everyone has the rite to improve themselves whether it be through gaining a degree or taking nightclasses for a vocational qual etc. Doing so, however, doesnt qualify you for anything in the Corps. The routes are there to be followed (you do generalise them somewhat!!). If a R Sigs Soldier wants his career to follow the RD/LE stream, he has to do the postings to give his profile the correct ticks in boxes. The same with any of the Supervisory roles (it requires slightly more than making a Yeoman brews for a few years!!). Theres selection, the course, the profile postings then the chance for Commission as TFC/TOT/TFC R/TFC IS.

    Gaining a degree/qual in your own time is over and above this. I'd be interested to know what gaining a degree qualifies you to do in the Corps. The Supervisory roles and LE rosters are more to do with experience than anything else - same can be said for DE Officers. If somebody is good enough to be a Yeoman, Foreman, Supvr IS or Supvr Radio and is in the RD roster (and i've no doubt there are hundreds if not thousands) as the Corps currently stands they have missed the boat.

    Should we, however, be looking outside the Supervisory rosters for particular skill sets (as with the IS career stream supporting Bowman Aps), regardless of rank to fill particular roles in the Corps? Bloody right we should. No point re-training or refusing because you dont hold the correct title. So bearing that in mind, maybe the "third stream" is already there - find an App Spec and ask them all about it!!
  10. No disputing they are experts in there field but they are not experts in all ICS fields within the Army. We tend to concentrate on ICS provision for teeth units leaving CSS corps ICS provision to other corps such as the Arty, RLC etc
  11. So how come its the Tfc/YofS that control the whole kit and caboodle when it comes to nets/networks? And that there are scaleys out there in CSS roles as ICS SMEs?

    Edited to say Subject Matter Expert
  12. Boney,
    I agree that a degree achieved in your own time deserves no more than a pat on the back, and it certainly doesn't mean that you are any more employable in the Corps. What it does indicate however is that some people develop, or at least get serious about the Army at different times. Not all soldiers know what they want to do as a 23 year old Cpl.
    It has become much better in recent years and chaps have been able to go the supervisory route much later in their career, but some coves really don't want to do it and don't want to shout, march and AGAI 67 either. I am not deriding the Supervisory boys, in fact all power to their elbow and we need them, but each to their own.
    The point is that there are gapped staff jobs alles uber the platz that could be filled by intelligent LE officers, who are commissioned not because they were supervisory or because they were RSMs, they could be commissioned on merit and acumen.
  13. Surely you can only get promoted into the supervisory trades or into the roster, apart from a very small bunch of WO2s in trade? I'm not sure exactly what guys you're on about, or rather what sort of skillsets would they have? Any WO can apply for a commission in the Corps and they don't necessarily have to have senior Brecon under their belt. So I think the option is already open to quality blokes (and girls) anyway and therefore able to appoint that person to a non-technical SO3 slot or procurement or whatever.

    I totally agree with you mate. Some people hit a certain point in their life (e.g. getting married), re-evaluate their priorities and really start to shine. Unfortunately it's often too late for some to reap the benefits in their chosen career, however perhaps the Versatile Engagement (VEng) might offer a good avenue. I wonder if the commissioning opportunities will flex to accommodate such soldiers.
  14. Not entirely sure if its done across the board (no pun intended) I'd suggest a more in depth Desk Officer at MCM Div as I've heard some LEs do. Someone who has been there done that with their respective trade especially for the guys who are following in their non-SPVR footsteps. I don't want to knock MCM as I've been fairly lucky with my postings but there have still been a couple of horrific knowledge gaps by the civvy who controls my 'career' profile (No idea in 2003 what CLM was for example).

    There's also the possibility of some post in some of the IPTs. I'm dealing with one at the moment who don't quite grasp the G6 (as well as the G4) side of life. Seems to be that when I've visited DLO/DPA/DE&S the only scaleys have been SOs and the WO2/WO1s have been REME (not that I knocking them) plus the usual large smattering of civvies.

    The only prolem I can see with opening up posts in the like of MCM Div or the IPTs is the old once someone is in a post they like they don't won't to leave so it gets effectively written off until they go. (in fact that bugs me that much I'm off to start it as a separate topic).