Timbuktu's Destruction,why?.

#2
Because unfortunately a subsect of Islam holds fast that these sort of shrines are a crime. This belief is propagated amongst poorly educated people, many of whom rely on the teaching of their local Iman or other religious figure to provide them with guidance in the world.

Part of the problem stems from a lack of tolerance in this particular subsect of Islam, while another part stems from a problem of poor countries not chosing to spend money on education to help improve society to a standard where people can see this sort of BS for what it really is.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#4
What is the reasoning behind this mindless desecration of their own culture?.First Mali then Egypt,imagine AQ destroying the Pyramids.

Mali: Islamists take pickaxes to Timbuktu's ancient mausoleums - Telegraph
Because it's not their culture - the difference between the puritanical Wahabhi-Salafism streak of Islam preached by AQ and the Animist influenced Islam of Mali is massive - AQ salafists would happily blow up the pyramids if they got the chance representitive that they are of Idol worshipping polytheists.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
Baroness Ashton has condemned the Timbuctoo vandalism, which is all that is needed. The Muslim perpetrators will be quaking in their flip-flops.

Shades of Cromwell actually.
 
#7
You are assuming it's their culture, it's not it's the locals culture and this bunch are mostly inspired by the fringe version of Islam exposed by the philistine highland Saudis and rather a lot of charitable funding from the Kingships. Shrines are common across the Islamic world and devotion often centers on them the way it does in Catholic europe. You'll even find Christian shrines venerated by Muslims in Syria, some date back to the Bronze Age. This lot are just like Prods outraged by idolatry smashing the painted idols of outraged Papists back during the reformation.

Most Pakistani political families have a Sufi saint in their linage and the place is littered with diverse monuments to holy men. As Islam is often just a thin overlay over older very diverse heathen practices this should not surprise.
 
#8
Because unfortunately a subsect of Islam holds fast that these sort of shrines are a crime. This belief is propagated amongst poorly educated people, many of whom rely on the teaching of their local Iman or other religious figure to provide them with guidance in the world.

Part of the problem stems from a lack of tolerance in this particular subsect of Islam, while another part stems from a problem of poor countries not chosing to spend money on education to help improve society to a standard where people can see this sort of BS for what it really is.
Very true, the Taliban destroyed ancient statues of Buddha in Afghanistan, claiming it was idolatry :- After 1,700 years, Buddhas fall to Taliban dynamite - Telegraph
before in 1976


After in 2001
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You only have to look at the way various sects of Islam attack & kill each other, Sunni & Shia being one of the main divides.
The problem is that the Arab Spring has released a lot of fundamentalists back into ME society and these are beginning to organise themselves & as in Egypt, take power and start a process of radicalisation.
 
#9
To think 'Taliban' = 'Students'.

Savages, all of them. Even povery is no excuse, as any one with half a brain would realise they are a potential source of income.
 
#10
To think 'Taliban' = 'Students'.

Savages, all of them. Even povery is no excuse, as any one with half a brain would realise they are a potential source of income.
Actually think "Divinity Students", just with more eyeliner. Stalin attended a Seminary. Rome once had Jesuit storm troopers, that modern Whore Of Babylon the House Of Saud has the Deobandis.
 
#11
I suppose that there's an element of "He who controls the past defines the future" in it. Deny people access to the real evidence of the past and they have to take your word for it.
 
#12
It's not just an Islamic thing though. One only has to look at the dissolution of the monasteries by Henry VIII or the destruction and removal of Anglo Saxon and Celtic gravestones from many church yards by the Puritans to see similar acts of vandalism in our own recent history. It's nice to think Western and far Eastern society has moved on but to be honest we haven't moved on all that far. A certain secular European regime was happily stuffing Jews and other undesirables into gas chambers within living memory, after all.
 
#13
Very true, the Taliban destroyed ancient statues of Buddha in Afghanistan, claiming it was idolatry :- After 1,700 years, Buddhas fall to Taliban dynamite - Telegraph
before in 1976


After in 2001
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You only have to look at the way various sects of Islam attack & kill each other, Sunni & Shia being one of the main divides.
The problem is that the Arab Spring has released a lot of fundamentalists back into ME society and these are beginning to organise themselves & as in Egypt, take power and start a process of radicalisation.
I would respectfully urge to separate the two.

What is playing out in Timbuktu is the imposition of the ideology of shirk.

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]شرك[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]The need for this is driven by the concept of tawheed (Oneness, or monotheism). Since 'there is no God but God, and Mohammed is his prophet' there can be no human government aside from that which is laid out in the Koran. This is why "democracy" is not permissible since it is the usurping of Allah's divine right to govern.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Now, my African Islam is a bit dodgy (to be fair, my general Islam is just interested layman). but the concept of "marabutu" (holy man - IIRR) is a sort of local variation. So this invention (bid'a, or innovation) winds up the salafist Islam strain who wish to purge Islam back to the time of the prophet's companions.

So the sudden arrival of the demolition crews is very interesting and hints at the wider conflict for ungoverned space in West Africa.

AQ In the Islamic Maghreb are supposed to be re-arming, and we should remember that AQ fast-trackers were often send to the seminaries in Mauritania. So there is a centre of gravity here, despite the Saudi/Egyptian schism in AQ.

This is a bit different, I would suggest to the Sunni/Shi'a schism.

But it would make a hell of a good MSc or Phd if someone wants to sponsor my ideas!
[/FONT]
 
#15
They're all sodding mad.
 
#17
Very much an echo of the Iconoclasm of the Byzantine Empire and the excesses of the Reformation- Loons who have overdosed on literal Scripture taking out their frustration on 'graven images'.

Underneath, it is a thrashing about by inadequate people who feel out of control of the world, and think its because God has turned away from them. They and their culture aren't running the world any more. If so, it's obviously 'cos God is pissed off with them. So, they go back to the Book to see what they have done wrong to annoy Him and become increasingly literal minded. Ah- Ha! There it is-Statues and paintings! Get the hammers!

Ironically, as they seek to impose their increasingly bonkers views on their co-religionists (who they view as slackers and splitters) , they themselves slip ever more off to the margins, and so dive deeper into Scripture looking for even more literal interpretations.

This stuff usually burns itself out in about 50 years. People can't keep up the passion and eventually there's nothing left to burn.
 
#18
Very much an echo of the Iconoclasm of the Byzantine Empire and the excesses of the Reformation- Loons who have overdosed on literal Scripture taking out their frustration on 'graven images'.

Underneath, it is a thrashing about by inadequate people who feel out of control of the world, and think its because God has turned away from them. They and their culture aren't running the world any more. If so, it's obviously 'cos God is pissed off with them. So, they go back to the Book to see what they have done wrong to annoy Him and become increasingly literal minded. Ah- Ha! There it is-Statues and paintings! Get the hammers!

Ironically, as they seek to impose their increasingly bonkers views on their co-religionists (who they view as slackers and splitters) , they themselves slip ever more off to the margins, and so dive deeper into Scripture looking for even more literal interpretations.

This stuff usually burns itself out in about 50 years. People can't keep up the passion and eventually there's nothing left to burn.

Hmmm.. and in the meantime if rational peope dont step in & stop them they will f**k the whole planet up, putting us back in the dark ages they seem to thrive in :-(
 
#19
I suppose that there's an element of "He who controls the past defines the future" in it. Deny people access to the real evidence of the past and they have to take your word for it.
Saddam Hussein destroyed and altered many items of historical value and significance in Iraq for exactly this reason.
 

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