Tim Collins kicks off spat with Civil Service

#2
Fart in a thunderstorm it may well be perceived to be, but with 82,500 civil servants in support of military activities, I'd hope that Fox will cull these with the same level of enthusiasm he has promoted in SDSR.
 
#3
"Fart in a thunderstorm it may well be perceived to be, but with 82,500 civil servants in support of military activities, I'd hope that Fox will cull these with the same level of enthusiasm he has promoted in SDSR. "

The SDSR will cut 25,000 civil servants over the next 3 years. That is 7,000 more than the combined SDSR cuts to all 3 services.

I am exceptionally tired of people somehow seeing the civil service as the root of all evil in the world of Defence. There is a very outdated perception that we somehow control everything, know everything and try to hamstring the efforts of brave boys who are going to do what they can despite their evil CS colleagues doing what they can to destroy them.

I do wish the military would perhaps accept that sometimes the changes that they don't like are driven by personnel in uniform and not pinstripes.
 
#4
I think the man might be correct as regards CS - In the Treasury. I have not seen any jealousy from CS in MoD tbh - but there are some very senior ones who are wont to go around talking about 80k and tough decisions in the future, but on the whole, these seem as enthused by cuts to the CS as any other.

I am not sure I understand the link between CEA and mid ranking service administrators either.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#5
The title - "kicks off a spat with the CS" - intrigued me. Who will he have a 'spat' with? Does anyone in the MOD - Uniformed or civvy? - give a flying toss what he thinks? No, no-one does, no-one at all.


He's trying to keep his name in the media so as to keep up the price he can charge as a 'motivational and after dinner speaker'.
 
#7
Agreed. Has he a new book in the pipeline? He has elected to pursue a meeja career: thus, as Oscar Wilde (allegedly) said, 'The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about'.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
he has a point though, the civvies and the amount are for the main part the reason we have such a mess. both the civil service and political types.

they could move all the mod civilians over to the inland revenue to get more money in and cut the 100+ billion tax gap
 
#9
The title - "kicks off a spat with the CS" - intrigued me. Who will he have a 'spat' with?
I would have written 'attempts to instigate controversy regarding motivation of' but it seemed a bit clumsy and overlong. Presumably he anticipated some sort of spirited response to the suggestion that cuts chiefly were motivated by envy and spite.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
mind you they never have understood the extra things that a good military brings to a population. one thing I have never found in a civil servant is a sense of duty or pride
 
#11
"Fart in a thunderstorm it may well be perceived to be, but with 82,500 civil servants in support of military activities, I'd hope that Fox will cull these with the same level of enthusiasm he has promoted in SDSR. "

The SDSR will cut 25,000 civil servants over the next 3 years. That is 7,000 more than the combined SDSR cuts to all 3 services.

I am exceptionally tired of people somehow seeing the civil service as the root of all evil in the world of Defence. There is a very outdated perception that we somehow control everything, know everything and try to hamstring the efforts of brave boys who are going to do what they can despite their evil CS colleagues doing what they can to destroy them.

I do wish the military would perhaps accept that sometimes the changes that they don't like are driven by personnel in uniform and not pinstripes.
well said.
 
#12
He never managed to motivate me.
Nor me, but then again the phrase "I'll crush you like an insect" never did motivate me, just got my back up.

The man was a bullying gobshite when he was serving and had rank with a little power, now he's just a gobshite throwing petulant Irish tantrums.
 
#13
I believe that the colonel speaks a great deal of truth in this matter. The repellent and failed oaf Brown vowed to 'bring the Armed Forces down a peg or two' and his 'client state of civil servants simply followed his lead!
 
#14
Always thought of him as the chap who messed about with Nelsons prayer untill I found myself in a large room near him. Now I think of him as that loud mouthed titch that nicked nelsons prayer. But thats me a just a civie.
 
#15
I believe that the colonel speaks a great deal of truth in this matter. The repellent and failed oaf Brown vowed to 'bring the Armed Forces down a peg or two' and his 'client state of civil servants simply followed his lead!
C'mon you shouldn't blurt out his pillow talk to all and sundry on here. Have some dignity.
 
#16
"Smug pen-pushing Civil Servants cackle into their gold-plated pensions and vast bonuses whilst our boys die in the desert etc etc."

Zzzzzzzzzz. I very much doubt most servicemen would have any desire to do most of the jobs civil servants do and they'd certainly cost the taxpayer a lot more to do so.
 
#17
one thing I have never found in a civil servant is a sense of duty or pride
I have to disagree on that one, there are a good number that are extremely proud of their role within the MoD and frequently go the extra mile - admittedly they tend to be the older ones and in many cases ex-military but nevertheless their sense of duty exceeds that of the increasing number of militant malingerers in all 3 services.
 
#18
they could move all the mod civilians over to the inland revenue to get more money in and cut the 100+ billion tax gap
Yeah, right - because it really makes sense to redeploy the guy in DSTL who is working on CIED to work as a tax clerk.

I thank your avatar features the wrong end of the animal.

C_C
 
#19
I have to disagree on that one, there are a good number that are extremely proud of their role within the MoD and frequently go the extra mile - admittedly they tend to be the older ones and in many cases ex-military but nevertheless their sense of duty exceeds that of the increasing number of militant malingerers in all 3 services.
Agree with you there my missus having been one of them for over 20 years, Col Collins as dingerr said never motivated me either, his pre battle "speech" made me think he had spent the night before boning up on shakespeare! Self serving to say the least.
 
#20
The ignorant need a bogeyman to blame stuff on - it just so happens that CS fit the bill nicely for them.

It helps them to generate a standard reportoire of pub stories to show off to their mates their amazing insight of the inner workings of MoD, and fills in the gaps between buying a round and mouthing off about the EU.
 

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