Three inmates die at Guantanamo

#3
What's the Koran's position on suicide that doesn't involve the killing of innocents?
 
#5
Death_Rowums said:
What's the Koran's position on suicide that doesn't involve the killing of innocents?
Completely banned. Incidentally, there is also a pretty clear statement in the Koran that suicide bombing is also banned.

One of Mohammed's companions took a suicidal risk in battle and died - when his other companions started sounding off about how good it was that the guy was now in Paradise, Mohammed specifically said he was damned to hell for eternity because he had committed suicide. The parallell with suicide bombing is to my mind pretty exact - if that is considered to be enough to damn someone for eternity, I see no way on earth that suicide bombing can ever be justifiable in Islam. Hence the insistence of the groups that carry them out in referring to them as "Martyrdom operations" rather than suicide bombings - if they used the word "suicide" they would never get any volunteers, but by referring to them as "Martyrdom operations" they are trying to draw a distinction in the mind of those that they recruit between suicide and "martyrdom". This distinction is of course explicitly not there in the Koran.
 
#6
pdf27 said:
Death_Rowums said:
What's the Koran's position on suicide that doesn't involve the killing of innocents?
Completely banned. Incidentally, there is also a pretty clear statement in the Koran that suicide bombing is also banned.

One of Mohammed's companions took a suicidal risk in battle and died - when his other companions started sounding off about how good it was that the guy was now in Paradise, Mohammed specifically said he was damned to hell for eternity because he had committed suicide. The parallell with suicide bombing is to my mind pretty exact - if that is considered to be enough to damn someone for eternity, I see no way on earth that suicide bombing can ever be justifiable in Islam. Hence the insistence of the groups that carry them out in referring to them as "Martyrdom operations" rather than suicide bombings - if they used the word "suicide" they would never get any volunteers, but by referring to them as "Martyrdom operations" they are trying to draw a distinction in the mind of those that they recruit between suicide and "martyrdom". This distinction is of course explicitly not there in the Koran.
Almost makes me want there to be truth in the 3 strandsof middle eastern folklore that have been fu'cking up this planet for 2000+ yrs just so the tw@ts are damned!!!
 
#7
Death_Rowums said:
What's the Koran's position on suicide that doesn't involve the killing of innocents?
Definitely no Reward, no 21 virgins or whatever they think paradise is only compensation as usual What's the USA position on compensation??
We better hope that none of them ever visited Londonstan or the British taxpayer will be getting stung for the compensation they all seem very big on that
 
#8
Its getting beyond a joke now, charge them or let them go.

What little moral high ground the spams occupy will surely go if this keeps up.
 
#9
Taz_786 said:
Its getting beyond a joke now, charge them or let them go.

What little moral high ground the spams occupy will surely go if this keeps up.
Fcuk 'Moral high Ground'. At least whilst they are banged up they're not killing any of us.
 
#10
Typical Yanks, always late.

Just leaving people hanging around waiting.

I suppose if you're dangling in your cell then it is some form of high ground.

But doubt if there's anything moral about it.
 
#11
No sympathy from this corner
 
#12
**** 'em! Maybe they should hold a mass suicide. I'd even help them onto their ropes. :D
 
#13
Being called an "act of war" by the camp commander.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5068606.stm

"How dare they do this to me!!!"- What a tube.

When are these people going to get a fcuking grip and realise that their policies and actions are completely counter-productive in the "War on Terrrrrrrr".

Just a thought about the people who say fcuk 'em. If there is evidence that they've done something wrong, why not try them in the Spams' kangaroo court (sorry, military tribunal)? I seem to read a lot of harping on about the presumption of innocence whenever the Irish Guards' swimming lessons and the USMC at Haditha are mentioned, why has it all gone quiet now?

Secondly, if you choose to invade another country and the people living there (surprise, surprise) choose resist they are both de facto and de jure Prisoners of War and should be treated in full accordance with the Geneva Conventions.

Thirdly, what is there to suggest that their suicides were politically motivated. How many people have topped themselves on remand in British prisons?
 
#14
When are these people going to get a fcuking grip and realise that their policies and actions are completely counter-productive in the "War on Terrrrrrrr".

Just a thought about the people who say fcuk 'em. If there is evidence that they've done something wrong, why not try them in the Spams' kangaroo court (sorry, military tribunal)? I seem to read a lot of harping on about the presumption of innocence whenever the Irish Guards' swimming lessons and the USMC at Haditha are mentioned, why has it all gone quiet now?
While i agree that the spams need to get a higher grip on the moral ground. Scattered and sometimes explainable incidents do not an evil army make compared to intentionally blowing up civilians with that express mission in mind as opposed to accidents or things done under extreme stress (even if they are trained for it and SHOULD be beacons of integrity as the majority are)

Secondly, if you choose to invade another country and the people living there (surprise, surprise) choose resist they are both de facto and de jure Prisoners of War and should be treated in full accordance with the Geneva Conventions.
In my limited understanding i'm led to believe the Geneva convention doesn't apply to those who dont observe it themselves? Again this doesn't stop the americans treating them decently and truly occupying the moral high ground but as a very good letter to the times pointed out, the war is being fought on tv and in the media and america could do with having a decent "image" much as it doesn't feel right to say


Thirdly, what is there to suggest that their suicides were politically motivated. How many people have topped themselves on remand in British prisons?
No enough frankly
 
#16
Un-Friendly-Fire said:
When are these people going to get a fcuking grip and realise that their policies and actions are completely counter-productive in the "War on Terrrrrrrr".

Just a thought about the people who say fcuk 'em. If there is evidence that they've done something wrong, why not try them in the Spams' kangaroo court (sorry, military tribunal)? I seem to read a lot of harping on about the presumption of innocence whenever the Irish Guards' swimming lessons and the USMC at Haditha are mentioned, why has it all gone quiet now?
While i agree that the spams need to get a higher grip on the moral ground. Scattered and sometimes explainable incidents do not an evil army make compared to intentionally blowing up civilians with that express mission in mind as opposed to accidents or things done under extreme stress (even if they are trained for it and SHOULD be beacons of integrity as the majority are)

Secondly, if you choose to invade another country and the people living there (surprise, surprise) choose resist they are both de facto and de jure Prisoners of War and should be treated in full accordance with the Geneva Conventions.
In my limited understanding i'm led to believe the Geneva convention doesn't apply to those who dont observe it themselves? Again this doesn't stop the americans treating them decently and truly occupying the moral high ground but as a very good letter to the times pointed out, the war is being fought on tv and in the media and america could do with having a decent "image" much as it doesn't feel right to say


Thirdly, what is there to suggest that their suicides were politically motivated. How many people have topped themselves on remand in British prisons?
No enough frankly
You're missing the essential point that the only thing that establishes these men as Terrorists is the US Government's say-so. Even they do not have the evidence required to demonstrate it in a tribunal that is so heavily stacked in favour of the prosecution that they have to hold them outside of US Territory because otherwise the Supreme Court would strike it down as unconstitutional. Surely you've been paying enough attention recently to observe that the US Government's say-so isn't the most credible or compelling justification for anything these days.

I'm not saying that these people are whiter than the driven snow. I AM saying that the burden of proof being on the accuser is one of the central tenets of law and order in the US and UK. Both sides have committed barbarous acts over the past few years. Blood is on everbody's hands. When it comes down to it, the only thing that we have in our favour is that we have a set of rules and we work to them. If we throw them out of the window, the differences between us and them becomes a matters of degree.
 
#17

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#19
crabtastic said:
Jesus H. Christ- they're calling the triple suicide a PR stunt now. FFS, did they give their public affairs people the weekend off or something? Engage brain before mouth, you fcuking tarts!
Crabt, please engage your thinking circuits before posting. You have either got a short memory, are too young, or are completely ignorant of what has been alluded to several times earlier in this thread.

The Yanks are entirely correct in considering this a publicity stunt - and remember, it has already been done, in Ulster, by a Mr Bobby Sands MP (of disgusting memory), and several others (some of whom were not entirely 'volunteers' either).

As a publicity stunt it worked for the Provos, and I have no doubt that it will work for these scum as well. Depends on the gullibility of your target audience, and in the case of the average local in the Middle East (and many on this site) it will certainly have the desired effect.
 

Similar threads


Latest Threads

Top