Three Brigadiers in three months - sacked or suspended…

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Unlikely. Apparently we were either mad, married or Methodist. I must have been the exception that proves the rule.
Let's hope so for your sake. I recall being lectured by some bloke called Scott Grant at Camberley. He was certainly very odd...
 
Keith Cima was a Sapper.
I believe he was the initial 2* Director in the very early days of Project Hyperion - the move out of Wilton (and bits of Upavon) down the road to Andover.
Had a very good reputation, unlike one of his ex Sapper replacements a few years later!
 
An RAOC S/SGT Staff clerk told me in the early eighties though that Kitson would never make it right to the top as he was too political. I think he meant due to the books he wrote on counter insurgency - Bunch of Fives. If you remember there had been a lot of talk of a military coup in the press during the mid seventies during the reign of Harold Wilson. Mountbatten and General Walter Walker of Borneo Confrontation fame. Frank had been quite controversial during his time in Belfast and is still on an IRA death list I think. He was held in some suspicion by elements of the political class.
Kitson is still with us, his book 'Low Intensity Operations' was regarded as essential reading at one time -

 

chimera

LE
Moderator
I have known him for approaching 40 years and was privileged to twice serve under his command.

He wasn’t stitched by the suits, he was stitched by the Constable. At the heart of it was the Constable’s desire to live in The Queens House, which was traditionally the Governor’s residence.

A 4* bully. Who’d have guessed?
I would put them both in the same category.
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
Let's hope so for your sake. I recall being lectured by some bloke called Scott Grant at Camberley. He was certainly very odd...
For some reason, when that name appeared on my screen the lights flickered, people in the street crossed themselves, and there was a distant howling of an animal.....
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Psyops works. Had a few hysterical frothers during basic training who would do the screaming thing while we did pole PT with creosote poles and a couple of tyres slung on them between two recruits.

The movie Caddyshack had come out around that time and one of the songs was Kenny Loggins' 'I'm Alright'. Absolutely knacked and blowing our guts out of our arses but a km from the gate we'd straighten up and start singing that thing. Couple of times the instructors were taken for a 'special' PT session for not smashing us enough.
Not surprised one bit, I’ve seen footage of ZA NS trg and frankly it’s brutal!
 
An RAOC S/SGT Staff clerk told me in the early eighties though that Kitson would never make it right to the top as he was too political. I think he meant due to the books he wrote on counter insurgency - Bunch of Fives. If you remember there had been a lot of talk of a military coup in the press during the mid seventies during the reign of Harold Wilson. Mountbatten and General Walter Walker of Borneo Confrontation fame. Frank had been quite controversial during his time in Belfast and is still on an IRA death list I think. He was held in some suspicion by elements of the political class.

Kitson was a dangerous man.

Not a bad man, but most definitely a dangerous man.

The British establishment preferred to keep men like that readily available - but always at a safe distance.
 
Let's hope so for your sake. I recall being lectured by some bloke called Scott Grant at Camberley. He was certainly very odd...
Giant Viper.

I’m still terrified by the concept of playing golf, 33 years after my first interview with him on joining his brigade HQ. First question; what sport do you play? Before I could answer, “I hope it’s not golf, it’s and old man’s game”. I’m nearly 60 and still don’t play golf….

I witnessed him dismiss a squadron commander from his brigade on a CPC with words along the lines of “go away from my Brigade. You were useless at Sandhurst and nothing has changed since”. As a CO, he fired three RSMs. He was a very focused commander.

And yet; in a world of “dash and panache” infantry and cavalry brigade commanders, he was a man who read and studied very widely and thought and tested ideas. He let his close teams experiment and accepted that failure was part of that process. Just fail once and learn.

An austere man on a very different intellectual planet from most of us.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Giant Viper.

I’m still terrified by the concept of playing golf, 33 years after my first interview with him on joining his brigade HQ. First question; what sport do you play? Before I could answer, “I hope it’s not golf, it’s and old man’s game”. I’m nearly 60 and still don’t play golf….

I witnessed him dismiss a squadron commander from his brigade on a CPC with words along the lines of “go away from my Brigade. You were useless at Sandhurst and nothing has changed since”. As a CO, he fired three RSMs. He was a very focused commander.

And yet; in a world of “dash and panache” infantry and cavalry brigade commanders, he was a man who read and studied very widely and thought and tested ideas. He let his close teams experiment and accepted that failure was part of that process. Just fail once and learn.

An austere man on a very different intellectual planet from most of us.
He harangued my syndicate for 40 minutes about staff work and left us with a closely typed memorandum regarding vehicle husbandry that he'd written as a CO and another when he was a Bde Comd.

I still have them somewhere - they were quite good actually!
 
Giant Viper.

I’m still terrified by the concept of playing golf, 33 years after my first interview with him on joining his brigade HQ. First question; what sport do you play? Before I could answer, “I hope it’s not golf, it’s and old man’s game”. I’m nearly 60 and still don’t play golf….

I witnessed him dismiss a squadron commander from his brigade on a CPC with words along the lines of “go away from my Brigade. You were useless at Sandhurst and nothing has changed since”. As a CO, he fired three RSMs. He was a very focused commander.

And yet; in a world of “dash and panache” infantry and cavalry brigade commanders, he was a man who read and studied very widely and thought and tested ideas. He let his close teams experiment and accepted that failure was part of that process. Just fail once and learn.

An austere man on a very different intellectual planet from most of us.
How on earth did he “accept failure was part of the process”, yet sacked 3 RSMs? Perhaps the failure lay closer to home!
 
Keith Cima was a Sapper.
Probably why he became a full time helmsman on the Tower Bridge RNLI lifeboat for four and a half years followed by two years as a volunteer. Living in France now and is Chairman of SSFA France according to his Linkedin entry.

More than likely more sinned against than sinner.
 
and rewarded

He subsequently deployed to Afghanistan in 2002 as the Commander of the British Forces on Op JACANA, for which he received a CBE and the US Bronze Star.

Archie

Eh yeh, it was the 2002 tour in Afghanistan from which he was 'removed'.
 

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