Three Brigadiers in three months - sacked or suspended…


Bde Commanders in 7X, 20X and 12X all removed from post since July.

I suppose it’s a positive that (alleged) bullies are being removed from Command positions…
 
Jasper De Quincey Adams, tells me all I need to know :)

Not referring to this or other recent investigations but. it really does call in to question the whole culture and structure of the Army. In the rest of the world such behaviour towards anyone would be construed as Gross Misconduct followed by pretty much instant dismissal.

Why anyone thinks rank, position or a couple of silly badges gives them carte blanche to bully people is beyond me. It really indicates weak and cowardly individuals hiding behind a system simply to get their own way and this behaviour infects the Army from LCpl to General.

Ducere est servire'? Meum asinum.
 
Jasper De Quincey Adams, tells me all I need to know :)

Not referring to this or other recent investigations but. it really does call in to question the whole culture and structure of the Army. In the rest of the world such behaviour towards anyone would be construed as Gross Misconduct followed by pretty much instant dismissal.

Why anyone thinks rank, position or a couple of silly badges gives them carte blanche to bully people is beyond me. It really indicates weak and cowardly individuals hiding behind a system simply to get their own way and this behaviour infects the Army from LCpl to General.

Ducere est servire'? Meum asinum.

Hopefully the problem is not widespread and diminishing but otherwise as you say.

The notion that the Army (and this might permeate into the RAF and Navy but I have not seen so) is better and more effective by operating as a toxic and abusive entity with comments such as "suck it up", "builds character", "not a place for snowflakes" seeming antiquated. If that is so then why doesn't it work elsewhere?
 
What happens to these blokes now then?

Are there 3 brigadiers just cutting about somewhere and still drawing a wage?
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer

Bde Commanders in 7X, 20X and 12X all removed from post since July.

I suppose it’s a positive that (alleged) bullies are being removed from Command positions…
When are you landing 2SL?
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
I fondly recall my Bde Comd bouncing a radio off the head of SO2 Comms whilst shouting 'why can't I speak to anyone?!'

I think it's a kind of rage that infects Army 1*s when they believe the formation (and certainly its HQ) to be their own personal fiefdom.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Jasper De Quincey Adams, tells me all I need to know :)

Not referring to this or other recent investigations but. it really does call in to question the whole culture and structure of the Army. In the rest of the world such behaviour towards anyone would be construed as Gross Misconduct followed by pretty much instant dismissal.

Why anyone thinks rank, position or a couple of silly badges gives them carte blanche to bully people is beyond me. It really indicates weak and cowardly individuals hiding behind a system simply to get their own way and this behaviour infects the Army from LCpl to General.

Ducere est servire'? Meum asinum.
My bold - he's suspended and under investigation. I'm sure if he turns out to be guilty then I would hope he'll be off.
 
I fondly recall my Bde Comd bouncing a radio off the head of SO2 Comms whilst shouting 'why can't I speak to anyone?!'

I think it's a kind of rage that infects Army 1*s when they believe the formation (and certainly its HQ) to be their own personal fiefdom.
Well, with a name like Jasper de Quincy Range-Rover-Smythe, it probably is his personal fiefdom
 

Bde Commanders in 7X, 20X and 12X all removed from post since July.

I suppose it’s a positive that (alleged) bullies are being removed from Command positions…
God forbid any officers have a bit of spirit in them.

How about we ban weapons and ask the enemy to a shura every time as we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings in your world?
 
God forbid any officers have a bit of spirit in them.

How about we ban weapons and ask the enemy to a shura every time as we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings in your world?
I've never seen the need to shout in an office environment (I would assume they were in such, as a chair was thrown).

Spirit =/= unnecessary swearing or throwing office furniture(the only 'necessary' swearing, I would opine, would be if providing aggressive/immediate direction in contact/exercise. Even then, it would be debateable).
 
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It is good to see that allegations of bullying are being properly investigated. I think of my time in MB (total 10 years spread over about 20) and the egregious behaviour by OF6s, 1-3* - both military and Civil Servants - who in any other environment would be immediately suspended on disciplinary grounds. Yet shouting and getting angry with people is still seen as 'forthright leadership'.

A former VCDS who recently retired was famous for his bad temper and 'hair-dryer' treatment he would give to subordinates. Yet the system indulged him for his behaviour, but in XWH meetings, seniors from other departments would be aghast at this person's outbursts.
 
I fondly recall my Bde Comd bouncing a radio off the head of SO2 Comms whilst shouting 'why can't I speak to anyone?!'

I think it's a kind of rage that infects Army 1*s when they believe the formation (and certainly its HQ) to be their own personal fiefdom.

I didn't interact with Brigade Commanders...

It is certainly instructive to see that they sometimes behave exactly like thuggish and overpromoted JNCOs.
 

Yokel

LE

Bde Commanders in 7X, 20X and 12X all removed from post since July.

I suppose it’s a positive that (alleged) bullies are being removed from Command positions…

Does this mean that the policy of 'beatings will continue until morale improves' will be reviewed? What about things like victimising someone who has had a complaint upheld at level 2, destroying records to protect the miscreants at the expense of the individual, and spreading very unpleasant and totally false rumours - all at OR9/OF3/OF4 level.

None of these people have served anyone other themselves. Some of them have damaged the Service through their ignorance and self importance.

I have said it before and I will say it again - I think that we need to see more prosecutions for Misconduct In Public Office. Punishing the guilty and not the victim would also be a welcome change.

God forbid any officers have a bit of spirit in them.

How about we ban weapons and ask the enemy to a shura every time as we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings in your world?

I seem to recall you recently condemning the First Sea Lord. Someone might think that have a personal or political agenda.

I've never seen the need to shout in an office environment (I would assume they were in such, as a chair was thrown). Spirit =/= unnecessary swearing or throwing office furniture(the only 'necessary' swearing, I would opine, would be if providing aggressive/immediate direction in contact/exercise. Even then, it would be debateable).

What about an OF4 having a tantrum when confused and waving his fist about? It was not nice being in that room.
 
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My bold - he's suspended and under investigation. I'm sure if he turns out to be guilty then I would hope he'll be off.
That's why I deliberately stated, not referring to this investigation. As you know full well the army is awash with 'robust leadership' which is nothing more or less than low level bullying. As this one has hit the press, like so many senior officers over the past couple of years he will no doubt face a number of options maybe exonerated, possibly censured, maybe CM'd but this is just the tip of the iceberg and now it has broken the surface into the MSM the army may have to be seen to be doing something.

Or perhaps it thought it was

 
God forbid any officers have a bit of spirit in them.

How about we ban weapons and ask the enemy to a shura every time as we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings in your world?

It's not spirit, it's a lack of character/ abuse of position in the sense that the bulk of these incidents occur because those acting in such a manner believe it's a one way range, confident they can use their rank or whatever as a gum shield.

If the allegation is true, should the junior officer have reacted 'instinctively' and filled the twat in for throwing a chair at him his career and more would have been over as folk closed ranks in condoning such behaviour.
 

Dread

LE
What happens to these blokes now then?

Are there 3 brigadiers just cutting about somewhere and still drawing a wage?

On promotion from Colonel to 1*, it is made very clear to the person that they are on a 1 job notice period, with no guarantee whatsoever that they'll have a job in 2 years. On the upside, by that stage they will have a nice pension to look forward to.

So these 3 brigadiers are waiting to find out their fates: they'll either be asked to resign or face a court martial if the Army think they're guilty/have a case to answer. If no case to answer/cleared by court martial then they'll be back in the job. Any impact on their chances of getting a further posting is anyone's guess.
 
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