Threats in Trg

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#1
MOD EDIT by DISCO
Split and created seperate thread for this query, amazon I will take at face value you are for real with a true concern and not a journo or someone with an axe to grind, do not dissapoint. The thread can run as long as the following caveats are met.

1. It stay on topic
2. Dont post unless you have direct experience in this area or have evidence, no speculation " a mate once said..." This means you luke so STFU.
3. It stays constructive and is not a soap box to sound off

If your post is missing it didnt meet one of the above.



ok folks, I have trawled some of the forums more relevant to new recruits and cant find anything on the subject and I would appreciate some guidance because of the nature of my query (and as a parent)

I won't go into details but, is it normal for army staff to threaten new recruits with physical violence (assault)? ie I will do this to you, that to you. Not that it should make a difference, but from a grown man to a young girl, the threat comes over far worse.

I am aware the army handbook states it is against the rules, amongst other less serious stuff. Given all the bad press in recent years I thought the army had weeded out the bully tactics...or is that n ot the case? Is this normal threatement and behaviour in the British Army these days?
 
#2
My mate who is currently at deepcut who went to harrogate said they were always getting threatened, and thrown into lockers and punched and kicked n stuff.

But I'm not sure about man onto girl.
 
#3
now now luke posts like that are very stupid!!

yes we had threats but merely as a rant not an ACTUAL threat and no it's not worth their rank to threaten your cotton wrapped babies!! however at their unit if they screw up it'll happen but trust in phase 1 and 2 they ain't worth the hassle!!

And as for leave you pay for accomodation as that is your place to live but you don't pay for food as you are not consuming. Some of us didn't pay for either on leave however the army realised they lost sooo much money over a room they can't rent out etc..

word to the wise as well Luke, until you've done a bit the lot on here don't need 'my mate' stories!!

Hope that clears things up a bit and yes they probably would be emergency taxed however inform your kids that the JPA pay statement is no where near as clear as the armynet one so that'll prob read better then the printed ones! I'm in my 8th year now and still prefer the old version you get on Armynet.

Any major Q's PM me as i check most evenings and will try help as long as they are not person/corps/regt dependent
 
#6
amazon1 said:
ok folks, I have trawled some of the forums more relevant to new recruits and cant find anything on the subject and I would appreciate some guidance because of the nature of my query (and as a parent)

I won't go into details but, is it normal for army staff to threaten new recruits with physical violence (assault)? ie I will do this to you, that to you. Not that it should make a difference, but from a grown man to a young girl, the threat comes over far worse.

I am aware the army handbook states it is against the rules, amongst other less serious stuff. Given all the bad press in recent years I thought the army had weeded out the bully tactics...or is that n ot the case? Is this normal threatement and behaviour in the British Army these days?
Training should be robust. The army are training soldiers to react to orders without question and to make quick operational decisions under extreme circumstances whilst remaining in control. The nature of active service means that soldiers have to be mentally tough and physically strong. Mistakes cannot be countenanced as mistakes will cost lives. That said robust training should not mean bullying. There is a difference between hard robust training and bullying and bullying should not be tolerated.

From your post it appears that your daughter is very new to the army. Be aware when you are speaking to her on the phone that if she is in the very early stages of training she may be experiencing the 'shock' of transformation from the comfortable life of a civvy to the sometimes harsh life of a soldier. Things said by instructors may all seem magnified by the experience of leaving home, learning new skills at a fast pace, being tired and being subjected to a disciplinary regime totally different to what she is used to.
 
#7
I am just trying to find out if direct threats of assualt are allowed or not. Either they are or they aren't.

Believe me this is no cotton-wrapped baby as someone puts it, and she was under the impression there would be shouting and ordering, all the usual expectations of army life. But not constant individual bullying.

Is robust training 'I will smash your face in with this gun?"

A pile of other stuff too, but so far thats the worst (early days yet mind you).
 
#8
Morning all. I only found this web site yesterday ... interesting! Our lad joined up 5½ weeks ago now and is due to do his "Pass Off" parade (is that the right term?) - that's the one where they get their cap badges - on Saturday before coming home for a weeks leave. He's at Winchester as a Junior Soldier and has, over the weeks, begun to come to terms with what is expected of him. They've been out on a couple of "exercises", improved their endurance and stamina and just completed a battlefield tour in Belgium and France. That was an eye opener for him ... especially as the whole squadron had to march in the daily parade through the Menin Gate (they hadn't seen that coming). His comments to us were "... it makes you feel proud to be part of something like this although it hits home when you see 60 odd thousand names of soldiers without graves ..."

I do believe he's growing up.

As for the threats of assault mentioned earlier ... only your daughter knows how serious those threats are. Our lad has reported back that they've been threatened and one of the corporals has had to be stopped from hitting one of the recruits but the general feeling (afterwards) was that it was a demonstration or a learning point in order for the recruits to understand that the behaviour they were exhibiting was inappropriate. Our lad has said "... it's not school is it? This lot would rather beat you up than send you out of the room." Again, another realisation that he is in an adult world now - a world where bad things happen if you don't do what you've been told.

The camp CO and the OC of the squadron made it perfectly clear to all the parents and all the recruits that bullying was not allowed and formed no part of the training process at Winchester - however, a direct threat like (true example) " if any of you leave your safety catches off and loose off a round at me, I will shoot you back" can also be seen as a learning point rather than a bullying statement. Your daughter will know if she's being bullied and picked upon because others in the section/troop/squadron will be being treated differently. If they are all being treated the same then it's (probably) nothing to worry about.
 
#9
amazon1 said:
I am just trying to find out if direct threats of assualt are allowed or not. Either they are or they aren't.

Believe me this is no cotton-wrapped baby as someone puts it, and she was under the impression there would be shouting and ordering, all the usual expectations of army life. But not constant individual bullying.

Is robust training 'I will smash your face in with this gun?"

A pile of other stuff too, but so far thats the worst (early days yet mind you).
The AFC has an extremely strong anti bullying policy and a multitude of outlets for reporting abuse. As said previously only your daughter knows how serious the situation is and in what context threats are made; if however she is genuinenly concerned she must speak to one of the following: Padre, WRVS, Welfare Officer or one of the Sandies Staff all will assist if required.
I am sure however that threats like that will deffinatley only be nothing more than idle threats, any individual either carrying out those threats or being involved in systematic bullying would be in deep sh*t regardless of their rank.
 
#10
she says it is not happening in the same way to over 45+ others in her group. I recognise the example given above as relevant however in this instance, the threat was in relation to simply not having done a task correctly, not a serious safety issue or something that can be learned from.

She is constantly picked on and singled out several times a day by the same person. I have cross questioned all of this. Yes the threats may be 'idle' as in scare tactics, but that is what bullying is. What I am trying to find out here, is, are army staff allowed to make a threat of assualt (and whether idle or not). Accordidng to the handbook she was given, it is not allowed.

You mention 'she is in an adult world now' well at well over 19 she has been working with senior adults for over 2 years in an employed capacity and unfortunately she has not had to deal with anything 'bad' (ie threat of assault) happening to her if she did not do as she was told. In fact neither do I or anyone I know.

I have told her to report it to either wrvs or someone else she can approach, today. She does not otherwise want to leave but it seems she is not being given a chance to make headway as this guy is making every attempt to demotivate her and he is not doing it with the others to the same extent. After a year of waiting and training this is most unexpected.
 
#11
amazon, if you are really worried contact her OC for a quiet word, you should have contact numbers if not ask on here and one of the kind chaps will help out I'm sure.
 
#12
Cheggars,

Thanks for the advise re food charges. As they have been charged for food whilst on leave will they get it back automatically or do they need to claim it back?
 
#13
After an ND (blank on ex) I got a swift boot up the ARRSE, and some very choice words shouted at me. I was in the wrong, and didn't do it again. I also had to buy the DS a jar of coffee for the pleasure. But it's better than a charge.

What you're describing sounds like bullying and should be addressed before it gets worse. Being singled out for not doing anything wrong isn't right.
 
#14
Luke-675 said:
My mate who is currently at deepcut who went to harrogate said they were always getting threatened, and thrown into lockers and punched and kicked n stuff.

But I'm not sure about man onto girl.
I highly doubt that, the welfare service at the AFC Is second to none.

Probably trying to make himself look good or to scare you.
 
#15
Luke-675 said:
But I'm not sure about man onto girl.
No surprise there then.

By the way, I suspect your mate is full of the proverbial and spouting a load of shite to big himself up. Is he perchance a loggie?
 
#16
well hopefully we might have a turnaround, my daughter told the corporal today that she wants out and when he asked why she told him because he is making it clear she isnt wanted by, and good enough for the army (though she thinks she is doing ok and doesnt want to leave). Normally as a parent I would want to phone up and demand an explanation however, they aren't at school anymore and one has to refrain from being an interfering parent to a reasonable point!

Anyway, he (the one who was singling her out and making threats etc) has offered to give her extra support/help with anything she is struggling with. Im pleased about this because a lot of time and effort has gone into this career choice and to be more or less blown out in week 2 when you dont want to (and there are plenty girls crying for home who have already decided to leave in the first week) is more than a shame for someone who wants a crack at it.

Like me, she thought if she did struggle with anything as part of the learning of becoming a solider she would be trained and helped where needed.

Anyway, will see how it goes this next couple of weeks.
 
#17
amazon 1

As I said, if it is early days in training then the psychological impact upon her of her transition from civilian to soldier may have made throwaway comments made by training staff seem like serious threats. Now that her corporal knows what the impact upon her of his comments has been and is giving her extra support hopefully she will be much happier.

It is sometimes very difficult for people who have no served to understand that the training methods of the army are necessarily different to other oranisations. This is because soldiers are uniquely the only members of contemporary society who are expected to kill and to put their own lives in danger to defend their country and carry out government foreign policy.

Anyway, hope she continues training and passes out with flying colours!!
 
#18
Speaking as a female, who was the same age as your daughter when I joined, I can see why she may feel some comments are a tad strong. However, she has joined the Army and hopes to pass out in due time, as such she has to learn, for her own safety and the safety of those around her, that mistakes (even seemingly small, insignificant ones) in the Army can have serious repercussions. Thus what you or she may see as a 'threat of violence' is more a case of a verbal reinforcement of this fact. It is unlikely that the person involved would ever carry out any of the actions they have described. The method of imparting that lesson can seem harsh to someone who is fresh from civvie street, however in the months/ years to come she will appreciate it for what it really was, merely another lesson.
I would also like to add that there are two sides to every story and you are only hearing one. If you really think the Corporal is bullying her, then as someone suggested above you should call her unit, express your worries and at the same time get both sides of the story.
 
#19
Thanks for all the comments.

I know about the shouting, swearing and stuff as being normal. However, as much as I try to tell her to chin up, that its normal for them to climb the walls when you have dropped a sock on the floor, I cant explain to her why only she is being singled out for detrimental treatment. Hopefully we shall see a positive turnaround.
 
#20
I think it is fairly apparent that if your daughter is the only one from her section taking the incoming then things are not right, it may be that she is slower at picking up the basics than her mates and has inadvertantly brought her self to the selectors eye or that there are personality issues at play between her and the instructors; neither reason warrants or is an excuse for bullying of either verbal or physical means.

Hopefully from your previous posts things may be about to improve, if that is not the case then it is beholden on her or you if she does not feel able to do so, to bring this matter to the attention of the chain of command via any of the welfare agencies that are in place at all phase one training establishments.
 
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