Threat to democracy in Latin America

#1
As you're unlikely to be getting much coverage in the British media, here's a reference to some recent events in this part of the world. It's very sad that we're reduced to searching through the Saturday letters page of The Guardian in order to discover imminent threats to democracy.

Let's hope the inhibiting effect of the recent turmoil in the markets will be passed quickly on to those contemplating the funding of costly illegal ventures into sovereign states.


On September 10th President Evo Morales of Bolivia declared the US ambassador persona non grata. On September 11th (the 35th anniversary of the military overthrow of Salvador Allende in Chile) the president of Venezuela asked the US ambassador there to leave the country. President Hugo Chavez believed he was facing the possibility of an imminent coup d'etat in which he said the US administration were involved. President Morales believed that his government was facing serious destabilisation which was also being fomented by the US. A third country, Paraguay, announced 10 days previously that it had detected a conspiracy involving military officers and opposition politicians.

Latin America now faces its most serious crisis since the reintroduction of democracy at the end of the 20th century. The plot against democracy in Venezuela centred on a conspiracy, revealed in telephone conversations between senior military officers broadcast on national television, to assassinate the democratically elected head of state. In Bolivia, the separatist prefects of the five eastern and southern departments have begun a campaign of violence and economic sabotage designed to destabilise the democratic regime.

These events show unequivocally who defends democracy and who threatens it today. We are appalled by the failure of much of the international media to provide accurate and proportionate coverage of these events. All democrats throughout should rally to defend democracy in Latin America.


Harold Pinter, John Pilger, Tony Benn, Ken Loach, Jean Lambert MEP, Ian Gibson MP, Kelvin Hopkins MP, Billy Hayes (General Secretary, CWU) Bill Greenshields (President, NUT) and 23 others
 
#2
Lots of insinuations, not a lot of substance. Ideology aside, Chavez and Morales are inept clowns who are more than capable of digging their own holes to fall into without any help from the septics..
 
#3
Ah, but it's not the right kind of democracy. I think you'll find that makes all the difference.
 
#4
#5
IMO, the mostly trotsky/stalinist types who are the signatories to that letter ought to keep their lefty collective noses out of something that has a marginal effect on the UK.
 
#6
A fair bit about Bolivia and the troubles the govt and indigenous people are having on radio four yesterday. So its not all lentil eating, hug a hoodie guardianista local govt employees who have their fingers anywhere near a pulse. South America? Democracy? bit like military intelligence really :lol:
 
#7
parapauk said:
In reality, the thread title should be refering to this:

Venezuela Expels 2 After Human Rights Report

CARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chávez’s government expelled two employees of Human Rights Watch late Thursday night after chafing at their documentation of widespread political discrimination, intimidation of union members and a subservient judiciary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/w...bl&ex=1222056000&en=e988142cbc6e5775&ei=5087
I'm all for reality.

And thanks for the contribution. But this thread was started with the intention of revealing the void created by the lack of coverage. There are serious threats to democracy in South America, and all you're doing is giving an extra vent for twisted propaganda.

What do you expect from the New York Times anyway? Fairness, completeness and impartiality? :D :D :D
 
#8
parapauk said:
In reality, the thread title should be refering to this:

Venezuela Expels 2 After Human Rights Report

CARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chávez’s government expelled two employees of Human Rights Watch late Thursday night after chafing at their documentation of widespread political discrimination, intimidation of union members and a subservient judiciary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/w...bl&ex=1222056000&en=e988142cbc6e5775&ei=5087
Also, in reality, the thread title should be 'Threat to US interests in Latin America'.
 
#9
KGB_resident said:
Also, in reality, the thread title should be 'Threat to US interests in Latin America'.
That's OK, since its no longer a secret that "democracy" is no more than a euphemism for "US interests".
 
#10
frenchperson said:
As you're unlikely to be getting much coverage in the British media, here's a reference to some recent events in this part of the world. It's very sad that we're reduced to searching through the Saturday letters page of The Guardian in order to discover imminent threats to democracy.

Let's hope the inhibiting effect of the recent turmoil in the markets will be passed quickly on to those contemplating the funding of costly illegal ventures into sovereign states.


On September 10th President Evo Morales of Bolivia declared the US ambassador persona non grata. On September 11th (the 35th anniversary of the military overthrow of Salvador Allende in Chile) the president of Venezuela asked the US ambassador there to leave the country. President Hugo Chavez believed he was facing the possibility of an imminent coup d'etat in which he said the US administration were involved. President Morales believed that his government was facing serious destabilisation which was also being fomented by the US. A third country, Paraguay, announced 10 days previously that it had detected a conspiracy involving military officers and opposition politicians.

Latin America now faces its most serious crisis since the reintroduction of democracy at the end of the 20th century. The plot against democracy in Venezuela centred on a conspiracy, revealed in telephone conversations between senior military officers broadcast on national television, to assassinate the democratically elected head of state. In Bolivia, the separatist prefects of the five eastern and southern departments have begun a campaign of violence and economic sabotage designed to destabilise the democratic regime.

These events show unequivocally who defends democracy and who threatens it today. We are appalled by the failure of much of the international media to provide accurate and proportionate coverage of these events. All democrats throughout should rally to defend democracy in Latin America.


Harold Pinter, John Pilger, Tony Benn, Ken Loach, Jean Lambert MEP, Ian Gibson MP, Kelvin Hopkins MP, Billy Hayes (General Secretary, CWU) Bill Greenshields (President, NUT) and 23 others
Interesting post. Democracy in South America is a fairly new concept (Continetally that is) and as such it will have its teething problems. Idiots like Chavez don't help but I expect much of their talk is homegrown rhetoric.

Of more interest however are the bunch of Marxist dinosaurs who signed the post and who have talked about "seperatists". Shades of Kosovo, South Ossetia, Abkhazia etc.



Less interesting
 
#11
frenchperson said:
parapauk said:
In reality, the thread title should be refering to this:

Venezuela Expels 2 After Human Rights Report

CARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chávez’s government expelled two employees of Human Rights Watch late Thursday night after chafing at their documentation of widespread political discrimination, intimidation of union members and a subservient judiciary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/w...bl&ex=1222056000&en=e988142cbc6e5775&ei=5087
I'm all for reality.

And thanks for the contribution. But this thread was started with the intention of revealing the void created by the lack of coverage. There are serious threats to democracy in South America, and all you're doing is giving an extra vent for twisted propaganda.

What do you expect from the New York Times anyway? Fairness, completeness and impartiality? :D :D :D
Is there any proof of anything this letter claims? Could it not be that Chavez has pi55ed of so many of his own people that they can't even wait for him to be chucked out in 2012? Or that Morales is such a political simpleton that he hasn't realised that forced land redistribution from the whites to the natives might provoke some blow-back when the whites all live on top of the gas reserves Bolivia needs for development?

Sadly, cheap hearsay is all the radical left has.
 
#12
rickshaw-major said:
[SNIP]
Of more interest however are the bunch of Marxist dinosaurs who signed the post and who have talked about "seperatists". Shades of Kosovo, South Ossetia, Abkhazia etc.
Blowback in action. Having failed to get the US to keep out of their local area the Russians are now busy messing round in America's back yard. Expect this sort of thing to increase in the future. There's plenty of fuel given the history of the place, so a bit of judiciously placed money, training and so on is all that's needed to spark things off.

Mexico's the other one to watch, it's uncomfortably close to being a narco-state as it is.

And if forced to choose I wouldn't expect much from Cuba this time round. But you never know ...
 
#13
Maybe of Interest:

http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/venezuela-circular-3696-2008.pdf

PARA: Ambassadors and other heads of mission of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela of Latin America and the Caribbean.

DE: Office of the Secretary

ASUNTO: In Plain Text

Date/Fecha: 17 MAY 2008


On instruction from the Minister of People's Power for Relations Exterior, Nicolas Maduro Moros, as Director General of Office (E), theme Poncelon Porras, copies of the Note Verbale No. 3695, addressed to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Colombia , In order to make the highest recipient of the Chancery of that country.

Signature: Yajaira Flores - Director of Secretariat (E) Date: 17/05/08

Bolivar Republic of Venezuela Ministry of People's Power For Foreign Affairs

Serial: 003695

Power To The Ministry Of Foreign Affairs of the Bolivar Republic of Venezuela, presents his compliments to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Colombia on occasion to make its most energetic protest at the illegal incursion of Colombian army troops in Venezuelan territory, which occurred the day May 16 in Sector Banks Paez Municipality of Apure state.

The Commission of 60 men from the Colombian army, under the command of whom are identified as el subtenant of the Colombian Army Johnny Jury Ocampo, assigned to Battalion Special Energy and Road No. 1 Gral. Juan Jose Valeasco Black, with headquarters in the Military Base Cuba, department of Arauca, Colombia, was intercepted at coordinates N - 07 02 "12.5 - w - 072 02" 6.4 800 (eight hundred) meters from the line border into Venezuelan territory and was forced to abandon immediately.

The Ministry of People's Power for Foreign Affairs of the Bolivar Republic of Venezuela, on behalf of the Venezuelan government, takes the occasion to demand that the Colombia government to ensure an immediate halt to these violations of international law, the sovereignty and integrity Territorial de Venezuela, and apply appropriate sanctions to those responsible

The Ministry of People's Power for Foreign Affairs of the Bolivar Republic of Venezuela sees with concern that this act of the warmongering policy of the Colombian Government that seeks to deliberately destabilize the Region
Caracas, May 17, 2008
 
#15
KGB_resident said:
parapauk said:
In reality, the thread title should be refering to this:

Venezuela Expels 2 After Human Rights Report

CARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chávez’s government expelled two employees of Human Rights Watch late Thursday night after chafing at their documentation of widespread political discrimination, intimidation of union members and a subservient judiciary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/w...bl&ex=1222056000&en=e988142cbc6e5775&ei=5087
Also, in reality, the thread title should be 'Threat to US interests in Latin America'.
What you fail to understand is that you can't have a socialist democracy.

From a US point of view, if the answer is to democratically elect a socialist government then you obviously don't understand the question.
 
#17
IT_Guy said:
KGB_resident said:
parapauk said:
In reality, the thread title should be refering to this:

Venezuela Expels 2 After Human Rights Report

CARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chávez’s government expelled two employees of Human Rights Watch late Thursday night after chafing at their documentation of widespread political discrimination, intimidation of union members and a subservient judiciary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/w...bl&ex=1222056000&en=e988142cbc6e5775&ei=5087
Also, in reality, the thread title should be 'Threat to US interests in Latin America'.
What you fail to understand is that you can't have a socialist democracy.
Mate, the Labour are socialists. They are at power. So according to you there is no democracy in the UK. Though... many here would agree with it.

Well, Spain is a socialist democracy... or not? If not then formulate please what do you mean by 'socialist democracy'.

Likely you are in your own axiomatic sistem with this fundamental axiom as a cornerstone.

Axiom: any anti-US government is anti-democratic.

IT_Guy said:
From a US point of view, if the answer is to democratically elect a socialist government then you obviously don't understand the question.
I see it. From a US point of view, election of anti-American government is 'anti-democratic' and such a government would be branded by Washington's agitprop as 'socialist', 'terrorist', 'autocracic' and so on.

Now try to understand a very simple idea. It is up to peoples to elect governments they like. Some of them could be anti-American ones.
 
#18
smartascarrots said:
Ah, but it's not the right kind of democracy. I think you'll find that makes all the difference.
Indeed, Chavez would agree with you, after he led a coup in 92 against a democratically elected president.
 
#19
Virgil said:
smartascarrots said:
Ah, but it's not the right kind of democracy. I think you'll find that makes all the difference.
Indeed, Chavez would agree with you, after he led a coup in 92 against a democratically elected president.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Venezuelan_coup_d'%C3%A9tat_attempts

Through Chavez's early life, Venezuela had enjoyed a period of economic and democratic stability that was remarkable in South America at the time, although torture, ill-treatment, extrajudicial killings, political disappearances and corruption were widespread
It's an interesting type of democracy with torture, ill-treatment, extrajudicial killings, political disappearances and corruption.

As I'm aware American constitution give right to American people to rebel against its government is such a situation... or not?
 
#20
I hate to break this to you but Chavez's 'early life' did not have the same government. The gov't he tried to overthrow was not the same gov't of his [bad things quoted below] early life. :wink:

KGB_resident said:
It's an interesting type of democracy with torture, ill-treatment, extrajudicial killings, political disappearances and corruption.
Sounds like Putin's Russia.

EDITED
 

Similar threads


Latest Threads

Top