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Thread derailing questions

#1
Originally Posted by whitecity
The Red Army systematically raped their way across the territory they conquored. ".

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For the fourth time you repeat the same statement in different threads derailing them for the sake of baiting. Nothing new. After all you are self-confessed hired pro-US propaganda blogger; a helpless self-obsessed demagogue. Add to it your morbid fondness for Goebbels statements you were peddling on the forum, and I am not surprised at your pathological hatred for anything even remotely Russian.

And so the fourth time I repeat my answer:
Lilly, J. Robert. Taken by force: rape and American GIs in Europe during World War II. Not allowed for publishing in the US for obvious reasons.

'A disturbing and brave book by a distinguished American criminologist. It lifts a painful lid on rape by American GIs in Europe during World War II. J. Robert Lilly asks troubling questions like why were most of the GIs executed for rape black? Why were there large numbers of executions of GIs for raping French and British women and girls, but none for raping Germans, when the German rapes tended to be more bestial? ..."

The Christian Century for December 5, 1945 quoted the American provost marshal, Lieutenant Colonel Gerald F. Bean, as saying “that rape presents no problem for the military police because a bit of food, a bar of chocolate, or a bar of soap seem to make the rape unnecessary.”

Historian Takemae Eiji reports that

. . . US troops comported themselves like conquerors, especially in the early weeks and months of occupation. Misbehavior ranged from black-marketeering, petty theft, reckless driving and disorderly conduct to vandalism, assault arson, murder and rape. . . . In Yokohama, Chiba and elsewhere, soldiers and sailors broke the law with impunity, and incidents of robbery, rape and occasionally murder were widely reported in the press.

John Dower writes in his Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of World War II that while the U.S./Japanese-sponsored brothels were open “the number of rapes and assaults on Japanese women were around 40 a day,” but after they were closed, the number rose to 330 a day.19 Yuki Tanaka records two major incidents of mass rape around the same time.20 On April 4, fifty GIs broke into a hospital in Omori and raped 77 women, one a woman who had just given birth, killing the two-day-old baby by tossing it onto the floor. On April 11, forty U.S. soldiers cut off the phone lines of one of Nagoya’s city blocks and entered a number of houses simultaneously, “raping many girls and woman between the ages of 10 and 55 years.”

etc., etc., etc.

But you know it all, because I presented all these and more on previous occasions. You also know that you don't give a hoot about any rapes or victims, the only reason you keep bringing up "Russian" theme every time you come across the thread where I post is because you know from your previous experience that after answering your bait thus derailing a thread I usualy choose to withdraw.
 
#2


All I can say is, I'm glad the Russians gave the Germans a ****ing good dicking in WWII…



(Note to Germans: Don't go invading a country and murdering 20 million of their civilians then go complaining they treat you harshly when they come back at you mob handed)
 
B

benjaminw1

Guest
#3
Because my dear nekulturni militant atheist, rape was a matter of policy for the Red Army of Workers and Peasants and wasn't for the civilised nations of the west...
 
B

benjaminw1

Guest
#5
I think many Russian civs who got to experience the 'hospitality' of the Wehrmacht might disgree with you there matey.
What's that got to do with the price of fish? One bunch of murdering barbarians replaced by another bunch of murdering barbarians.
 
#7
Ooooh! Temper temper!

Mind you I do like the self-confessed bit. You must be thinking of somebody else.



What a strange answer to the question re: Red Army rapes: How many perpetrators of this horrendeous crime were "shot on site or tried".

If you don't know the answer, even a very broad approximation, just admit it...

If you do know the answer, why aren't you able to give it and feel the need to camouflage your inadequacies by redirecting us to books about the Yanks?
Come now... About two years ago myself and RCT(V) paid you a compliment "setting up" a membership of "Whitecity fun-club". It was done in jest, yet you became so full of yourself that you couldn't stop yourself from telling us how some people appreciated your persuasive abilities so much that they offered you to run US propaganda blogs for them.

Using you as propagandist to groom public opinion is as effective as using bullets made out of shit; but I suppose US is strapped for cash and a cheap option has its own merrits.


As for the second part of your statement, I already provided you with links to and (translated by me) extracts from Stalin's and Zukov's orders regarding perpetrators of crimes against German civilians. Even YOU, whitecity, can understand that such high orders were not ignored.
You want to refresh your memory? Find those threads and re-read them.
 
#9
As for the second part of your statement, I already provided you with links to and (translated by me) extracts from Stalin's and Zukov's orders regarding perpetrators of crimes against German civilians. .





Marshal of the Soviet Union Georgiy Konstantinovich Zhukov - Does not play well with Germans, (or the Japanese).
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
It is true that the Russian forces marching across Europe did get involved heavily in acts of rape, mutilation, murder of civilians and general pillaging. This was not so much an official policy of the advancing hordes; more a process of ignorance and lack of control. The NKVD and political officers were more concerned about going forwards and ensuring political compliance than stopping the soldiers 'enjoying themselves' whilst fighting and killing the evil nazies.

Having said that, what goes around comes around. Them germins asked for it when they did the same on the way into Russia.
 
#12
As for the second part of your statement, I already provided you with links to and (translated by me) extracts from Stalin's and Zukov's orders regarding perpetrators of crimes against German civilians. Even YOU, whitecity, can understand that such high orders were not ignored.
You want to refresh your memory? Find those threads and re-read them.
I wouldn't care to venture how many times Russian/Soviet leaders have re-written their very own version of history. Putin is doing it now - literally rewriting history books - but I did once hear that a fair fraction of Soviet orders and documents concerning the second world war were written in close and even lengthy retrospect. I would hardly think they were a reliable basis for denying actions by the Red Army in Germany. You have a black mark in your nation's history. But don't we all?
 
#13
I wouldn't care to venture how many times Russian/Soviet leaders have re-written their very own version of history. Putin is doing it now - literally rewriting history books - but I did once hear that a fair fraction of Soviet orders and documents concerning the second world war were written in close and even lengthy retrospect. I would hardly think they were a reliable basis for denying actions by the Red Army in Germany. You have a black mark in your nation's history. But don't we all?
The documents I was refering to were taken from archives that were closed to public until recent times.

The instances you are refering to relate to a number of documents regarding Katun (mainly), when a person who was engaged in Yeltsyn authorised forgeries came forward and named other members of his group, a place were they worked, as well as demonstrated the blanks, the original stamps, etc that they were using to do their work. It was discussed at length on another thread.

Rapes, pillaging, looting, etc. was done by all: Allies as well as Axis; but only Germany gave an official permission for its military to do as they please on occupied by them EASTERN territories.
 
#14
Since I am using my Iphone I cannot weigh in on the meatier historical and pedagogical issues raised in this thread, I can say that Domovoy's accusations about White City's alleged blinding pro-US bias, I think a review of all his posts do not at all support such a charge. While he, like all of us if we are honest, has various biases, I think that sort of allegation, as I have argued consistently, is a distraction to the substantive issues and is usually used when one cannot bring anything substantive to the discussion.
 
#15
Domovoy said:
The documents I was refering to were taken from archives that were closed to public until recent times.

The instances you are refering to relate to a number of documents regarding Katun (mainly), when a person who was engaged in Yeltsyn authorised forgeries came forward and named other members of his group, a place were they worked, as well as demonstrated the blanks, the original stamps, etc that they were using to do their work. It was discussed at length on another thread.

Rapes, pillaging, looting, etc. was done by all: Allies as well as Axis; but only Germany gave an official permission for its military to do as they please on occupied by them EASTERN territories.
Ah yes! Those "expert forgers" who can only have been "expert" if they've been plying their trade for some time.

If these "expert forgers" really exist, then the ENTIRE Russian/Soviet archives are suspect.
 
#16
Ah yes! Those "expert forgers" who can only have been "expert" if they've been plying their trade for some time.

If these "expert forgers" really exist, then the ENTIRE Russian/Soviet archives are suspect.
Knowing how Stalin regarded history then I would say yes, but more likely through official pressure than forgery. History is written by the victor and when that victor is pedalling ideology then the truth is a natural casualty.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Knowing how Stalin regarded history then I would say yes, but more likely through official pressure than forgery. History is written by the victor and when that victor is pedalling ideology then the truth is a natural casualty.
Correct.

Domovoy - what do the Russian archives say about 'The Terror', out of interest?
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
The 'Red Terror', followed by 'Stalin's Terror' if you like.

Edited to add: Perhaps, in case you're missing the point, I'll elaborate.

You say that Russians didn't have a policy of rape and murder in Germany and that it wasn't widespread. I say, well, if the Chekists and the GRU et al later on could torture, inprison and murder MILLIONS of their own people, why were they so fond of the Germans that they didn't engage in wholesale slaughter, rape and pillage there? After all, the Germans had done a teensy weensy bit more than denounce Stalin . . . .
 

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