Thread about (Enfield) Threads

#1
Anyone know a source for taps & dies for Enfield threads?

As RSAF Enfield was set up before screw threads were standardised, the little tinkers just did their own thing..!

I have found this Threads for Lee Enfield Rifle

Which could be really useful, however the table does not give the thread form...!

Does anyone know what it is/was - I suspect it is 55 degree Whitworth, but looking at the end of my Parker Hale rod (which has an Enfield thread the same as the MH clearing rod!) the thread form looks pretty rounded...

I think there was an EMER about this to cover legacy weapons - anyone know?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#2
Before the No1 Mk111 I am no real help!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#4
#5
Anyone know a source for taps & dies for Enfield threads?

As RSAF Enfield was set up before screw threads were standardised, the little tinkers just did their own thing..!

I have found this Threads for Lee Enfield Rifle

Which could be really useful, however the table does not give the thread form...!

Does anyone know what it is/was - I suspect it is 55 degree Whitworth, but looking at the end of my Parker Hale rod (which has an Enfield thread the same as the MH clearing rod!) the thread form looks pretty rounded...

I think there was an EMER about this to cover legacy weapons - anyone know?
Not sure if Enfield threads are included here: Fastener Index Useful site anyway.
 
#8
Chaps,

Thanks for the feedback.. The link to the thread forms does not have Enfield, but has lots of others...

The Milsurp forum came up with the answer.. the thread is not Whitworth 55 degree or UNF 60 degree - it is apparently 49 degree 40 min (WTF!)!

It is also clear from MILSURP that Enfield taps and dies are like like unicorn poo.. so don't lose any screws when you dismantle your SMLE...
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#9
Chaps,

Thanks for the feedback.. The link to the thread forms does not have Enfield, but has lots of others...

The Milsurp forum came up with the answer.. the thread is not Whitworth 55 degree or UNF 60 degree - it is apparently 49 degree 40 min (WTF!)!

It is also clear from MILSURP that Enfield taps and dies are like like unicorn poo.. so don't lose any screws when you dismantle your SMLE...
If you do I have some spares!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using Tapatalk
 
#10
Chaps,

Thanks for the feedback.. The link to the thread forms does not have Enfield, but has lots of others...

The Milsurp forum came up with the answer.. the thread is not Whitworth 55 degree or UNF 60 degree - it is apparently 49 degree 40 min (WTF!)!

It is also clear from MILSURP that Enfield taps and dies are like like unicorn poo.. so don't lose any screws when you dismantle your SMLE...
If you really want them you can order any tap or die. can be a little pricey. A quick google pops these chaps up in Birmingham - bet they've made them before. Contact T-Tech Tooling Birmingham B14 4JZ 0121 430 3399 Threading Technology

Alternatively, for cleaning up then a good jobbing engineer should be able to thread cut a piece of silver steel, grind a clearance on two sides and then harden it. Might not be cheaper than a proper one mind by the time he's mucked about grinding thread tools to the right angle. This could in theory then be used to make a die but probably easier to threadcut new bolts.

No I don't want to do them for you! :)
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#11
If you really want them you can order any tap or die. can be a little pricey. A quick google pops these chaps up in Birmingham - bet they've made them before. Contact T-Tech Tooling Birmingham B14 4JZ 0121 430 3399 Threading Technology

Alternatively, for cleaning up then a good jobbing engineer should be able to thread cut a piece of silver steel, grind a clearance on two sides and then harden it. Might not be cheaper than a proper one mind by the time he's mucked about grinding thread tools to the right angle. This could in theory then be used to make a die but probably easier to threadcut new bolts.

No I don't want to do them for you! :)
I know a couple of shooting Toolmakers from wendesbury who have made shit like this before!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using Tapatalk
 
#12
If you really want them you can order any tap or die. can be a little pricey. A quick google pops these chaps up in Birmingham - bet they've made them before. Contact T-Tech Tooling Birmingham B14 4JZ 0121 430 3399 Threading Technology

Alternatively, for cleaning up then a good jobbing engineer should be able to thread cut a piece of silver steel, grind a clearance on two sides and then harden it. Might not be cheaper than a proper one mind by the time he's mucked about grinding thread tools to the right angle. This could in theory then be used to make a die but probably easier to threadcut new bolts.

No I don't want to do them for you! :)
That's OK mate... don't worry!

I class myself as a bit of a "jobbing engineer" meself... As you say, taps are reasonably easy to make from silver steel... it is the dies that are a bit of a bugger.. and it is a die you need to remanufacture screws..!

As I understand it, you make a tap then use it to cut a die, which then needs to be properly heat treated.. looks like a muffle furnace may be this winter's workshop project..!

... hence my interest in the thread form! - Don't know if I can get my Quorn to grind a 49 degree 40 min single point tool!
 
#13
49 deg 40 min? What's that in new money?
 
#15
That's OK mate... don't worry!

I class myself as a bit of a "jobbing engineer" meself... As you say, taps are reasonably easy to make from silver steel... it is the dies that are a bit of a bugger.. and it is a die you need to remanufacture screws..!

As I understand it, you make a tap then use it to cut a die, which then needs to be properly heat treated.. looks like a muffle furnace may be this winter's workshop project..!

... hence my interest in the thread form! - Don't know if I can get my Quorn to grind a 49 degree 40 min single point tool!
If you can turn a tap you can turn a screw. What are you trying to achieve?
 
#16
If you make the die from silver steel you can treat it in a small charcoal furnace - I made one from a metal waste paper basket with some sand in it, a pile of charcoal in the middle and blast provided by a butchered vacuum cleaner (which was a bit over the top!)
 
#17
If you make the die from silver steel you can treat it in a small charcoal furnace - I made one from a metal waste paper basket with some sand in it, a pile of charcoal in the middle and blast provided by a butchered vacuum cleaner (which was a bit over the top!)
I think the amount of warping and scaling you would get doing this would negate any attempt at precision.. Heat treating multi point cutting tools need to be done in a rather more controlled atmosphere..

Machine turning screws on a lathe is hard work, and very slow.. If you want to make (or clean up) small screws in any number, a die is what you need..
 
#18
.... Machine turning screws on a lathe is hard work, and very slow.. If you want to make (or clean up) small screws in any number, a die is what you need..
I wouldn't call it "hard work", it's bread and butter work to a proper turner. For just cleaning up threads, use a Whit thread file of the appropriate pitch, or use a jewellers file.
 
#19
On larger threads I think you could get away with it. In terms of turning screws I was thinking of you needing ones and twos not large numbers. If you need quantities just get them CNC machined.
 
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