Thousands of postal voters disappear in Birmingham

#1
Thousands of postal voters, read muslim voters have disappeared since the investigation into fraud....no surprise there then.

Postal voting fraud in council elections three years ago may have been more extensive than previously thought, it has been reported.

The BBC reported that the numbers of postal voters had fallen by 22,500 in the Birmingham wards at the centre of the allegations in 2004.

The case, which a high court judge famously said would have "shamed a banana republic", led to a reform of the postal voting system.

The BBC said that in the two wards that were the focus of the investigation there has been an 80% drop in the number of postal voters, while in four other wards where there were also claims of fraud the numbers have fallen by more than half.
Full story of muslim scam
 
#2
spiffy said:
Thousands of postal voters, read muslim voters have disappeared since the investigation into fraud....no surprise there then.

Postal voting fraud in council elections three years ago may have been more extensive than previously thought, it has been reported.

The BBC reported that the numbers of postal voters had fallen by 22,500 in the Birmingham wards at the centre of the allegations in 2004.

The case, which a high court judge famously said would have "shamed a banana republic", led to a reform of the postal voting system.

The BBC said that in the two wards that were the focus of the investigation there has been an 80% drop in the number of postal voters, while in four other wards where there were also claims of fraud the numbers have fallen by more than half.
Full story of muslim scam
I hate to come over all Sven-ish, but where does it say these fraudsters are all Muslims??
 
#3
Definite dramatic drop, but I strongly suspect it's still going on. The Police for a change, are all over this, unlike the pervious occasion , when their lack of interest in actually going after the last crowd was evident and remarked on by the Judge.

Angular,

There were two arrests of Lib Dem Muslim candidates in Birmingham yesterday, and immediate suspensions thereafter.

Anything that stops the election process being treated like it's taking place in Baluchistan not Birmingham , is a good thing.

Postal vote fraud won't stop, until the threat of interfering with the electoral process carries heavy sentencing.

Postal voting is abused , when the fraudsters can prey on ignorance and language difficulties.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
angular said:
spiffy said:
Thousands of postal voters, read muslim voters have disappeared since the investigation into fraud....no surprise there then.

Postal voting fraud in council elections three years ago may have been more extensive than previously thought, it has been reported.

The BBC reported that the numbers of postal voters had fallen by 22,500 in the Birmingham wards at the centre of the allegations in 2004.

The case, which a high court judge famously said would have "shamed a banana republic", led to a reform of the postal voting system.

The BBC said that in the two wards that were the focus of the investigation there has been an 80% drop in the number of postal voters, while in four other wards where there were also claims of fraud the numbers have fallen by more than half.
Full story of muslim scam
I hate to come over all Sven-ish, but where does it say these fraudsters are all Muslims??
No, they are NOT all muslims, but they ARE all Labliar supporters. So it's a mixed bag of Muslims, immigrants, homosexuals, deviants, malcontents, stupid, and dispossessed who wish to dispossess the electorate of it's democracy through subversion and burning down of parliament.

Edited to add: I stand corrected as it was also Lib representatives and voters. So please add to the list: Supid (oh, that's already there), wishy-washy, lame, pathetic and hopeless.
 
#5
angular said:
I hate to come over all Sven-ish, but where does it say these fraudsters are all Muslims??
It doesn't say they were all muslim in the article but if you research the fraud you will find that it was the muslim communities that were doing the fraud. Lets put it another way, PTP, the muslims friend & Lib Dem Activist, would be all over my post like a rash if it were b*llocks.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#6
Still going on indeed. Last weekend's Sunday Times had a big investigation into the latest Labour Party frauds, ahead of the local elections. I can't find a link, but this is the Comment piece from the same day:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article1719870.ece

Extract:
"Today we report that the Labour party in Leeds has driven an articulated lorry through this code in a desperate attempt to gain power on the city council. An undercover reporter posing as a student activist was part of a team told by the leader of the Labour group on the council, Keith Wakefield, and a fellow Labour politician, to collect postal votes in two key wards, and if necessary “help” voters fill in the forms. The other councillor, Graham Hyde, who worked in the Commons for George Mudie, the former Labour deputy chief whip, warned the canvassers not to get caught with any postal voting forms on them.

Every aspect of the code, in other words, was breached. As David Crompton, assistant chief constable of West Yorkshire, put it when told of Labour’s actions: “This is extremely sharp practice and a clear breach of the guidelines. We will now be looking at this carefully to determine whether a crime has been committed.” Whatever the police do, the Labour party should suspend the councillors involved."


As usual, there are no depths to which politicians will not sink. Labour introduced the revised postal system in order to get more votes from some immigrant groups, who they saw as 'natural' supporters (and who were 'well organised' to vote postally, fair or foul). The Iraq war saw many of these groups turn against Blair, and so the Labour party had a problem on their hands. Their answer? See the Sunday Times investigation for details.
 
#7
Our once great democratic tradition has been betrayed. We would put a 3rd world banana republic to shame right now.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#8
Why do we have secret ballots? As a result of gross fraud of just this sort. A quick search online gives us this:

The description of an election in ‘Pickwick Papers’ by Charles Dickens gives a graphic description of what an election was like prior to the 1872 act. Though the 1832 Reform Act had increased the number of voters, none of them had the right to vote in secret. Therefore with open voting, voters who rented out property or relied on a local employer for work had to invariably vote as the property owner or employer wanted them to vote. If they did not, they risked losing their accommodation and employment. In this sense though the 1832 act is seen as an extension of democracy, the fact that voters risked a great deal if they voted with their conscious works against this belief. That is why the 1872 Ballot Act is so important – as it was a real extension of democracy.

Though we take voting in secret as a natural course of action now, there were many in the Nineteenth Century who did not support it as they felt that property owners and employers had a right to influence the way people voted.


If we are to add 'family, religious, political and tribal leaders' to the above list of people who could influence voting, we'd be talking of today.
 
#9
As it should Mr. Deputy.

I don't mind my tax dollars going on preservation of the democratic process.

I do however mind them being spent when the Police decide not to persue cases as actively as they might.
 
#10
The_Cad said:
Our once great democratic tradition has been betrayed. We would put a 3rd world banana republic to shame right now.
We have. The Judge said so in the trials. But how else would Nu-Lairbor get the idle proles to vote the "right" way?

In Northern Ireland the Electoral Rolls got cleaned up very substantially so it can be done. There was some crap on the Radio this morning from a daft sounding woman who was "Consititutional Affairs Minister". She appeared to be suggesting that they could not do anything more because that would make it "too difficult" for some people to vote. What???

Eliminate Household Registration in favour of Individual Registrations, require a third identifier, such as an National Insurance, Passport or Driving Licence number and restrict Postal Voting back to the old system.

Not difficult really. Apparently the only other country in the world with our type of electoral system that has Householder Registration is: Zimbabwe!
 
#11
OldSnowy said:
Why do we have secret ballots? As a result of gross fraud of just this sort. A quick search online gives us this:

The description of an election in ‘Pickwick Papers’ by Charles Dickens gives a graphic description of what an election was like prior to the 1872 act. Though the 1832 Reform Act had increased the number of voters, none of them had the right to vote in secret. Therefore with open voting, voters who rented out property or relied on a local employer for work had to invariably vote as the property owner or employer wanted them to vote. If they did not, they risked losing their accommodation and employment. In this sense though the 1832 act is seen as an extension of democracy, the fact that voters risked a great deal if they voted with their conscious works against this belief. That is why the 1872 Ballot Act is so important – as it was a real extension of democracy.


Though we take voting in secret as a natural course of action now, there were many in the Nineteenth Century who did not support it as they felt that property owners and employers had a right to influence the way people voted.


If we are to add 'family, religious, political and tribal leaders' to the above list of people who could influence voting, we'd be talking of today.
Another justification for the public ballot was its transparency. If everyone could see who voted, then it meant there could be no shennanigans with the ballot box afterwards. In practice, the change to a secret ballot meant that rather than having to bribe a majority of electors, corruption could be focussed on the returning officer. That's why the 1872 Act was so rigorous in upholding this gent's impartiality and incidentally, (to answer a question asked on another thread) why the number of your ballot paper is recorded against your name on the electoral role.
 
#12
So either 20,000 people have decided not to use a postal vote as a result of the debacle at the last election, 20,000 extra votes from the last election were submitted as a result of postal fraud or 20,000 postal votes have 'gone missing' as a result of underhand tactics before this election.

Either way this doesn't smell good.
 
#13
Or maybe 20,000 dead people* decided not to vote this time around.




*Less the dead people on holiday.
 
#14
Well, since the last election we have had the bird flu and an increase in MSR haven't we? Perhaps it hit Birmingham badly!
 
#15
Mind you the very people who are the subjects in the postal vote scams used to do the same with ballot cards. Personation where people collected ballot cards to vote for others, dead or allive used to be common in some areas. My wife and I could have picked up and extra three votes between us as the previous owners of the house had not changed their registration, and I am pretty sure we would not have been caught.

Peter
 
#16
The answer is simple, a mandatory life sentence for electoral fraud.
 
#17
Bit extreme there Cad , but a significant time at HMP for proven and deliberate fraud should be on the books.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/newsreleasecampaigns.cfm/news/619

David Shaw, ACPO lead on Election Fraud and Assistant Chief Constable of West Midlands Police said:

"Democracy is vital to society and the police have a key role in upholding this. The seminar gave the opportunity to launch ACPO/Electoral Commission guidance for police forces to assist them in investigating allegation of electoral fraud.

"It must be stressed that there is little evidence of fraud on a major scale anywhere in the country. However by promoting best practice and learning from previous experiences, it will reduce the opportunity for fraud to occur. The seminar also gave the opportunity for the single points of contacts (SPOC) for the police and those in our partners in the electoral process to meet and build upon good working practices."
ACC Shaw, whilst you do great and unsung things elsewhere , I think you need to define what you mean by "Major".

Especially in the light of the dramatic fall in Postal vote applications in only 6 wards in one major city?
 
#18
IIRC wasn't there a fair bit of comment on BBC R4 after the last postal vote mess-up where a lot of people turned up to vote in person to be told that they already had??? Possibly including one of the Beeb bods but memory is rusty.

Cost would probably rule it out, but ONE example of a fraudulent vote should make that constituency/ward election null and void- i.e. a case of someone's vote being used by someone else as above and the ballot gets binned and ID required for the next one.

With the lamentably low turnout and apathy shown by the public, it's almost a shame that voting is not a right but a requirement. Earn the right by exercising that right! Don't bother to vote because celebrity felch a goat is on the idiot box? Then sorry, you've just lost the chance to vote next time. OK if you're overseas, in hospital or whatever then you have a valid excuse, but there are ways to overcome that.

Being dead would normally be a good excuse, but the deceased allegedly have an active political life thanks to postal voting!
 
#19
The_Cad said:
The answer is simple, a mandatory life sentence for electoral fraud.
No, why should tax payers pay for the upkeep of these criminals. Death and/or deportation.

For immigrants found guilty deport to country of origin, those British born deport to our penal colony...Australia.
 
#20
PartTimePongo said:
Bit extreme there Cad , but a significant time at HMP for proven and deliberate fraud should be on the books.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/newsreleasecampaigns.cfm/news/619

David Shaw, ACPO lead on Election Fraud and Assistant Chief Constable of West Midlands Police said:

"Democracy is vital to society and the police have a key role in upholding this. The seminar gave the opportunity to launch ACPO/Electoral Commission guidance for police forces to assist them in investigating allegation of electoral fraud.

"It must be stressed that there is little evidence of fraud on a major scale anywhere in the country. However by promoting best practice and learning from previous experiences, it will reduce the opportunity for fraud to occur. The seminar also gave the opportunity for the single points of contacts (SPOC) for the police and those in our partners in the electoral process to meet and build upon good working practices."
ACC Shaw, whilst you do great and unsung things elsewhere , I think you need to define what you mean by "Major".

Especially in the light of the dramatic fall in Postal vote applications in only 6 wards in one major city?
I agree, life sentence is probably extreme but a sentence involving "Hard Labour" appeals to most of us round here I suspect.

The huge increase in fraud is a damning indictment of everything that is wrong with our country at the moment.
 

Similar threads

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top