Thought would share this, Lancaster bombers operated by the Russian Air Force in WW2

philc

LE
Interesting blog on Polish forces, WW2 RAF bombers and other bits and pieces and this caught my eye. Just how easy would it of been to fly a Lancaster with no training?


Although no Lancasters were supplied to the Russian military under the lend lease scheme in WW2 two examples were in fact used in Russian Air Force markings.
 
Interesting blog on Polish forces, WW2 RAF bombers and other bits and pieces and this caught my eye. Just how easy would it of been to fly a Lancaster with no training?


Although no Lancasters were supplied to the Russian military under the lend lease scheme in WW2 two examples were in fact used in Russian Air Force markings.
I could be very wrong but, have vague memories of reading the Lanc being a very stable platform, and its predecessor built on similar geometry but with only 2 engines (I think) was a death trap.

I'm possibly getting my WW2 A/C mixed up though.

Have you seen the startup procedure for a Lanc from the cockpit? - It's a bit...'nails'.

(I've started a spitfire...would love to fly one)
 
I could be very wrong but, have vague memories of reading the Lanc being a very stable platform, and its predecessor built on similar geometry but with only 2 engines (I think) was a death trap.

I'm possibly getting my WW2 A/C mixed up though.
That was the Manchester.

Image result for avro manchester

From Wiki:

The Manchester was powered by a pair of Vulture engines; in service these proved to be extremely unreliable. Aviation author Jon Lake stated of the Vulture: "The engine made the Manchester mainly notable for its unreliability, poor performance, and general inadequacy to the task at hand" and attributed the aircraft's poor service record to the engine troubles.

I was one of the six original pilots to have flown with the first Manchester squadron. That was a disaster. The aircraft itself, the airframe, had many shortcomings in equipment in the beginning, but as we found out Avro were excellent in doing modifications and re-equipping the aeroplane. The engines never were and never did become reliable. They did not give enough power for the aeroplane, so we ended up with two extremely unreliable 1,750 hp engines having to haul a 50,000-pound aircraft. We should really have had 2,500 hp engines. You felt that if you'd lost one, that was it, you weren't coming home. It didn't matter if you feathered the propeller or not. There was only one way you went and that was down. I have seen an aircraft doing a run up on the ground and have two pistons come right out through the side of the engine. The original bearings were made without any silver as an economy measure, so they weren't hard enough. The bearings would collapse the connecting rod and the piston would fling out through the side of the engine and bang! Your engine just destroyed itself.
 
That was the Manchester.

Image result for avro manchester

From Wiki:

The Manchester was powered by a pair of Vulture engines; in service these proved to be extremely unreliable. Aviation author Jon Lake stated of the Vulture: "The engine made the Manchester mainly notable for its unreliability, poor performance, and general inadequacy to the task at hand" and attributed the aircraft's poor service record to the engine troubles.
Cheers mate...Saved me a lot of googling :)
 
@supermatelot Nails indeed. I used a couple of commands from Lanc start-up manual
- including the memorable Rad_Shutters_Auto - as programming passwords in the past. (FYI Hackers -I don't any more)

Grandfather rebuilt Merlin engines: damaged Lancs and Type B Halifax's for IX Squadron and few others in LIncolnshire during the war, and brought back some of the manuals.

He would personally go up with the crew on the test flight on any airframe his section brought back into service. Not bad for a former grocer. Then again he could spell and add up and had the first petrol vehicle (an Austin 7 shop van) in his northern town and kept it going himself. Still hell of a learning curve- jump from side valve Austins to Rolls Royce

The Manchester (Lanc predecessor) failing was the unreliable Vulture X16 quad engine - two V Peregrin engines glued * together.

(Shades of the lousy Triumph V8 Stag being two 4 pot Dolomite engines glued together!!!)

*Edit I don't know if these were welded together or held together by a casting or a recast block
 
Interesting blog on Polish forces, WW2 RAF bombers and other bits and pieces and this caught my eye. Just how easy would it of been to fly a Lancaster with no training?
During the Great Patriotic War, Heroes of the Soviet Union were quite expendable.
 

4(T)

LE
Just how easy would it of been to fly a Lancaster with no training?

In that rather excellent documentary about the womens' air transport auxiliary, one of the ladies recounts how the process for flying a new type was just to read through the pilot's notes and then get on with it!

Those ladies flew dozens of different types, apparently with little or no conversion training, so i guess that the practice was fairly common in the wartime years. You certainly read a lot of anecdotes about pilots borrowing an aircraft or having a cabby in one. I suppose life and airframes were very cheap back then.
 
@supermatelot Nails indeed. I used a couple of commands from Lanc start-up manual
- including the memorable Rad_Shutters_Auto - as programming passwords in the past. (FYI Hackers -I don't any more)

Grandfather rebuilt Merlin engines: damaged Lancs and Type B Halifax's for IX Squadron and few others in LIncolnshire during the war, and brought back some of the manuals.

He would personally go up with the crew on the test flight on any airframe his section brought back into service. Not bad for a former grocer. Then again he could spell and add up and had the first petrol vehicle (an Austin 7 shop van) in his northern town and kept it going himself. Still hell of a learning curve- jump from side valve Austins to Rolls Royce

The Manchester (Lanc predecessor) failing was the unreliable Vulture X16 quad engine - two V Peregrin engines glued * together.

(Shades of the lousy Triumph V8 Stag being two 4 pot Dolomite engines glued together!!!)

*Edit I don't know if these were welded together or held together by a casting or a recast block
There used to be an excellent vid on Youtube called ' NightBombers'. It was filmed during WW2. Has since been taken down. There are a few other ones of same name but...not the same.
Here is all I can find of it now on YT: A short extract..

 
In that rather excellent documentary about the womens' air transport auxiliary, one of the ladies recounts how the process for flying a new type was just to read through the pilot's notes and then get on with it!

Those ladies flew dozens of different types, apparently with little or no conversion training, so i guess that the practice was fairly common in the wartime years. You certainly read a lot of anecdotes about pilots borrowing an aircraft or having a cabby in one. I suppose life and airframes were very cheap back then.
I recall there was a UK docu about 6 years ago where they trained maybe sprog RAF to fly a Lanc. Can't recall what it was called. They actually trained for and flew the BBF Lanc though.
 
Russians had plenty of pilots with 4 engine heavy bomber experience - see their Pe-8
The Lancaster was considered an 'easy' bomber to fly - good handling, relatively vice free, plenty of power.
 
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@supermatelot Nails indeed. I used a couple of commands from Lanc start-up manual
- including the memorable Rad_Shutters_Auto - as programming passwords in the past. (FYI Hackers -I don't any more)

Grandfather rebuilt Merlin engines: damaged Lancs and Type B Halifax's for IX Squadron and few others in LIncolnshire during the war, and brought back some of the manuals.

He would personally go up with the crew on the test flight on any airframe his section brought back into service. Not bad for a former grocer. Then again he could spell and add up and had the first petrol vehicle (an Austin 7 shop van) in his northern town and kept it going himself. Still hell of a learning curve- jump from side valve Austins to Rolls Royce

The Manchester (Lanc predecessor) failing was the unreliable Vulture X16 quad engine - two V Peregrin engines glued * together.

(Shades of the lousy Triumph V8 Stag being two 4 pot Dolomite engines glued together!!!)

*Edit I don't know if these were welded together or held together by a casting or a recast block
Out of curiosity, did they ever try modifying a Manchester to take two Merlins?
 
The Manchester was cast in the same design mould as the He-177
A compound engine supposed to give reduced drag and better performance by using two engines instead of 4.
Suffered from all the same defects - unreliability, the engines loved to throw rods and a tendency to combust.
 
Interesting blog on Polish forces, WW2 RAF bombers and other bits and pieces and this caught my eye. Just how easy would it of been to fly a Lancaster with no training?


Although no Lancasters were supplied to the Russian military under the lend lease scheme in WW2 two examples were in fact used in Russian Air Force markings.
The rounded look to the covered up nose of one of the recovered Lancasters put me in mind of a Ju 88A-4 or Do-188,





although the Do-19 is probably a better likeness in some respects.



 
Nothing beats the sound of a Merlin...or four!!
 
The Krauts flew a crashed Stirling in similar nick;-

Image result for luftwaffe crashed stirling bomber

And the Halifax-ish nose on the original above is an improvement, but overall, every day is a school day!
 
Out of curiosity, did they ever try modifying a Manchester to take two Merlins?
After the loss of the prototype Manchester, a crucial meeting was held with Avro’s Managing Director, Roy Dobson, at which Air Chief Marshal Sir Wilfrid Freeman, the senior RAF officer in the Ministry of Aircraft production, and Air Vice Marshal Arthur Tedder, Director General of Research and Development in the Air Ministry, expressed their anxieties as to whether the Vulture-powered Manchester would prove a satisfactory aircraft. What happened next was recalled by Lord Tedder in his memoirs:

On the desk in Dobson’s office there was a nice model of the Manchester. Before we got any farther on the subject, Dobson asked Freeman a direct question: ‘I am told you have plenty of Merlins coming in. Is this right?’ to which Freeman answered ‘Yes’. Then what about this?’ said Dobson, taking one of the wings off and adding an extra wing and an extra engine on one side and then repeating the process on the other side. ‘How’s that?’ he asked. ‘That’ was the Lancaster – an afterthought that became one of the most successful and effective bombers of the war.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Various Squadrons but notably 617 and IX left Scotland, bombed the Tipitz in Northern Norway and then headed to Russia to land, refuel, and then return to Scotland.
 
I recall there was a UK docu about 6 years ago where they trained maybe sprog RAF to fly a Lanc. Can't recall what it was called. They actually trained for and flew the BBF Lanc though.
There was an excellent one recently called Bomber Boys on PBS. They took a bunch of young millennialals who were related to WWII Bomber crews and put them through the same training. Mixed with interviews of surviving flyers really interesting
 

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