Those In Peril Upon The Sea

[Solo Dave]

They don't collide
Submarine drives in to trawl net and and drags tralwer backwards at high speed
Trawler goes under very quickly.

It has happened

FV Antares, 1990

The Sinking of FV Antares | Britishseafishing.co.uk

In November 1990 the pelagic trawler Antares sank in the Firth of Clyde with all four crew members on board all losing their lives. The loss of the vessel was immensely controversial as it emerged that the Antares was sunk when its nets became tangled with a Royal Navy nuclear submarine.

britishseafishing.co.uk

You can only hope that, for the poor lads in incidents like this, it is all over before they realise what’s going on.

 

[Whiskybreath]

In this vein, I think it was the vicar at HQ 39 Bde who was sailing gently along one day, between Larne and Largs, mildly contemplating the scriptures, when a periscope separated the forward compartments of his yacht from the aft bits. I recall a conversation about it when crewing the AYA boat on the Irish Sea between those points in the early 90s. He was saved, but he had help.

 

[chrisg46]

If a sub tangles a net, doesnt it get dragged down by the sinking trawler?

 

[AULD_SWEAT]

In this vein, I think it was the vicar at HQ 39 Bde who was sailing gently along one day, between Larne and Largs, mildly contemplating the scriptures, when a periscope separated the forward compartments of his yacht from the aft bits. I recall a conversation about it when crewing the AYA boat on the Irish Sea between those points in the early 90s. He was saved, but he had help.

Near miss last year,in the same general area between a submarine and a Stena ferry.

 

[Yokel]

View attachment 536959
Near miss last year,in the same general area between a submarine and a Stena ferry.

Was that really a near miss? Ferries are rather noisy so the submarine would know the ferry was there, and there are no nets or anything that can get snagged.

Practising going an 'underwater look' perhaps? During the Cold War this was often done against Soviet ships - and it remains something that needs to be practiced.

@SONAR-BENDER

 

[solomon88]

Was that really a near miss? Ferries are rather noisy so the submarine would know the ferry was there, and there are no nets or anything that can get snagged.

Practising going an 'underwater look' perhaps? During the Cold War this was often done against Soviet ships - and it remains something that needs to be practiced.

@SONAR-BENDER

The MAIB report seems to think so. ISTR it said a few unkind things about the RN's.

 

[SONAR-BENDER]

An underwater look (UW) is both incredibly interesting and incredibly bum clenching!

Assuming a twin screw ship, the boat has to approach from the stern (rear - stop sniggering at the bank) slightly faster than the ship. The boat is at periscope depth (PD) so the top of the fin is only a few feet below the surface. As the boat gets closer, the twin vortexes from the ship's screws cause interesting effects, which the skipper has to control. When the boat is very close to the stern of the ship the periscope is lowered then, as the boat passes the swirling vortex, it goes 'quiet'.

At this point 'knowing/guesstimating' the draft of the ship, the periscope is slowly raised - looking upward. It is now that we know if the team have done a good drill, as the twin screws, or at least one of them, can be seen. The number of blades can be counted, type of propeller etc, and, as the boat moves forward underneath the ship, any 'interesting' holes or protuberances can be viewed. During this evolution, which takes as long as it takes, the ship and the boat are literally only feet from each other - and only one knows what is going on!

All of this is filmed for future analysis. At the time, if you are on watch in the Control Room, you can watch the action on several live TV monitors....... and hear/feel the prop wash!

When the job is done, the boat just gently goes deeper, then tea and muffins all round!

Practice makes perfect!

 

[Yokel]

An underwater look (UW) is both incredibly interesting and incredibly bum clenching!

Assuming a twin screw ship, the boat has to approach from the stern (rear - stop sniggering at the bank) slightly faster than the ship. The boat is at periscope depth (PD) so the top of the fin is only a few feet below the surface. As the boat gets closer, the twin vortexes from the ship's screws cause interesting effects, which the skipper has to control. When the boat is very close to the stern of the ship the periscope is lowered then, as the boat passes the swirling vortex, it goes 'quiet'.

At this point 'knowing/guesstimating' the draft of the ship, the periscope is slowly raised - looking upward. It is now that we know if the team have done a good drill, as the twin screws, or at least one of them, can be seen. The number of blades can be counted, type of propeller etc, and, as the boat moves forward underneath the ship, any 'interesting' holes or protuberances can be viewed. During this evolution, which takes as long as it takes, the ship and the boat are literally only feet from each other - and only one knows what is going on!

All of this is filmed for future analysis. At the time, if you are on watch in the Control Room, you can watch the action on several live TV monitors....... and hear/feel the prop wash!

When the job is done, the boat just gently goes deeper, then tea and muffins all round!

Practice makes perfect!

I am NOT asking for any details, but I assume that it has been done for real operationally in the last thirty years. Am I right? It has been featured in a number of documentaries.

Did the old diesel electric boats have enough power and speed to do it? What about modern SSKs?

Submarines were sometimes used for Northern Ireland related intelligence gathering.

 

[QRK2]

I am NOT asking for any details, but I assume that it has been done for real operationally in the last thirty years. Am I right? It has been featured in a number of documentaries.

Did the old diesel electric boats have enough power and speed to do it? What about modern SSKs?

http://iainballantyne.com/hunter-killer-submarines-iceberg-collision-is-a-case-of-deja-vu/

 

[Cutaway]

http://iainballantyne.com/hunter-killer-submarines-iceberg-collision-is-a-case-of-deja-vu/

More a case of pas vu.

 

[AULD_SWEAT]

Was that really a near miss? Ferries are rather noisy so the submarine would know the ferry was there, and there are no nets or anything that can get snagged.

Practising going an 'underwater look' perhaps? During the Cold War this was often done against Soviet ships - and it remains something that needs to be practiced.

@SONAR-BENDER

Think there was an interview without coffee regarding this.

 

[SONAR-BENDER]

On a related topic - under ice.

When the boat goes under the ice at the Polar ice cap, it is a 'bit' like a UWL in that there are upward looking cameras in the boat and large lumps if ice trying to 'get you!!' To this end there are upward and 'special' forward looking sonars. However, sonar can be 'interesting' under the ice. Navigation in those areas is also a problem. It is weird looking at a chart and seeing Spitzbergen and Bear Island at the bottom of the chart!

As the boat enters the ice, the first part is called the Marginal Ice Zone, militarised intp the MIZ. This area is made up of individual separate small pieces of ice, known as 'pancake ice' - obviously as the boat goes further into the ice, this ice gets thicker and starts to join up.

You might think of the Polar ice as being an area of tranquility, and it probably is above. However, below the noise is incredible, as all the blocks of ice rub each other, or break. There are squeaks, wails - all sorts! I said it sounded like an episode of Hill Street Blues! (Remember that? Dates the dit somewhat!!)

Then we enter into the pack ice, where the ice is compacted. This brings a new set of problems. We encounter 'ice keel's' which are deep pieces of ice forced down from broken ice shelves and also the base of large ice bergs. It is also difficult for the team to keep the boat ballasted, due to the differences in water density. Every so often we'd encounter a huge crack or fissure or open area of water above us. This is called a Polyna and was marked on the chart - this was our emergency exit if things went pear shaped and we had to surface at the rush!

Unfortunately I never surfaced at the pole, but got to 90 miles from it! At the time, one doesn't think of it as being 'that' dangerous, just a jolly adventure!

To see some of what our Red chums might have been up to, Google 'ballistic missile submarines Ice-picking under the Polar ice cap'.

 

[LeoRoverman]

^ I watched Ice Station Zebra last night for the umpteenth time. Always love that bit under the ice. Very informative and the Sonar man must had a right pain in the neck.

 

[solomon88]

Think there was an interview without coffee regarding this.

I mentioned earlier - the MAIB choose their words carefully, but they didn't seem impressed.

 

[solomon88]

^ I watched Ice Station Zebra last night for the umpteenth time. Always love that bit under the ice. Very informative and the Sonar man must had a right pain in the neck.

My Grandma took me to see that in 1960-something. I don't remember much, apart from going there and back on an AEC Regent!

 

[merchantman]

No lives lost but someone will be explaining what happened.

New drone footage shows ONE Apus loss could be worse than feared - The Loadstar

New analysis of drone video footage of the ONE Apus container vessel, which suffered a dramatic stack collapse on 30 November in the Pacific, has revealed that as much as 4,500 teu could be lost or damaged. The 14,000 teu vessel suffered a massive container stack collapse en route to Long Beach...

theloadstar.com

... and another one!

Los Angeles-Bound Maersk Essen Loses Some 750 Containers Overboard – gCaptain

 

[Mike Barton]

FV Antares, 1990

The Sinking of FV Antares | Britishseafishing.co.uk

In November 1990 the pelagic trawler Antares sank in the Firth of Clyde with all four crew members on board all losing their lives. The loss of the vessel was immensely controversial as it emerged that the Antares was sunk when its nets became tangled with a Royal Navy nuclear submarine.

britishseafishing.co.uk

You can only hope that, for the poor lads in incidents like this, it is all over before they realise what’s going on.

I remember one Sunday, early September 1987, if I am not wrong, a trawler went down off Malin Head. Clear day, calm sea, just one moment it was there, next it wasn't, four fishermen lost, I was there when they brought in two of the bodies to the pier, I can't remember if they located the other two. An RAF Wessex was involved in the search.

A few hours later we watched a sub sail on the surface between the coast and Inishtrahull traveling east, well after the incident in question but certainly the first time I had ever seen one on the surface in those waters. I am fairly certain it wasn't assisting in the search (I'm a devoted landlubber but even I know nuclear subs don't assist in search and rescue) and it was too long after the sinking to have been involved.

Anyone have any idea whether that accident was sub-related and would the later boat being on the surface have any relation to it, or just a coincidence?

ETA: I have found a link to the incident

Thirty years since the tragic sinking of the Boy Shaun - Donegal News

WEDNESDAY marked 30 years since one of the worst maritime tragedies in Irish history – the sinking of the Boy Shaun off north Donegal. Four fishermen perished when the 34 ft trawler went down near Malin Head on September 20 in circumstances that to this day have never been fully explained...

donegalnews.com

 

[solomon88]

Saw a heads-up elsewhere. Today is the Anniversary of the 1970 Fraserburgh Lifeboat disaster, 5 crew lost.

Memorial service remembers Fraserburgh lifeboat disaster

Princess Anne attends a ceremony in memory of five RNLI volunteers who lost their lives off Fraserburgh 50 years ago.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[LeoRoverman]

... and another one!

Los Angeles-Bound Maersk Essen Loses Some 750 Containers Overboard – gCaptain

Oh that'll keep the underwriters busy for a while. Does the Captain in such misfortune get interviews with no Scnapps?

 

[merchantman]

Oh that'll keep the underwriters busy for a while. Does the Captain in such misfortune get interviews with no Scnapps?

The way container ships are run these days it is difficult for the captain and crew to keep up with loading and discharge operations. They arrive in port and someone from the terminal will come aboard with a loading plan for the ship and the crew will have very little say in what goes where. The cargo lashing is also likely to be done by shore gangs but the ship's officers should check the lashings before the ship sails.

The latest info is:

A press report, dated Jan 20, states: Heavy weather in the North Pacific is being blamed for the loss of containers aboard fully cellular containership Maersk Essenon Jan 16. “We view this as a very serious situation which will be investigated promptly and thoroughly,” Maersk said in its statement. They reported that all the crew was safe and that a detailed cargo assessment is ongoing. In addition, the US Coast Guard, flag state and relevant authorities have been notified.

There will no doubt be questions asked but that's why you have insurance