Those In Peril Upon The Sea

[Electromagnetic]

2nd Mates used to manage it on the 12-4.

You probably had Decca, Loran and Lodestar DF as well? Seen those before.

 

[Dicky Ticker]

Navigation is primarily concerned with estimating where you are based on where you were: this is a pure function of Ship's speed, modified by wind and tied. If you can't estimate wind (normal) and tide (depends on how bored and keen the OOW is), you can still take a series of fixes and correct your estimated position against reality. You can't in open ocean without astrogation, but it rarely matters.

Inertial navigation was described to me thus: "Take everywhere you could be, subtract where you aren't, and what's left is where you are". Of course that works best when you are standing still, as soon as you move errors creep in, especially if you are in a medium that moves as well.

However, maintaining paper charts is emphatically not a small task (ask the Deck and Warfare officer types). A

I did the safety program for a project that bu)ilt and maintained a Geographic Information System (GIS) for marine charts. There is a hell of a lot of work involved in getting the data, putting it in the right order and creating the charts and then updating them.

 

[Dicky Ticker]

You probably had Decca, Loran and Lodestar DF as well? Seen those before.

Good old hyperbolic Radio Navigation, back in the dark ages of training we were shown how to fix Decca Navigator which gave you a position on three channels and when you cross referred the channel positions onto a special map gave you your position. Trouble is by the time you took the position off each channel and found the right point on the chart you'd mov ed on a bit so it only really worked on slow moving aircraft.

We flew back from Cyprus once on a Herc that had Decca Nav fitted, the Navigator had never switched it on although he was required to carry the charts. We gave him a quick lesson, it wiled away a half hour on a boring flight.

 

[Roadster280]

Don’t be found.
If found, don’t be targeted.
If targeted, don’t be hit.
If hit, get as many people out as possible.

I spent most of my time on training the first two steps.

Didn’t realise you were in artillery!

 

[par avion]

If tech doesn’t work, then frankly we’re dead.

A human is incapable of fighting a war at sea without tech.

Unless you have a NAAFI canteen manager on board armed with a GPMG.

 

[endure]

You probably had Decca, Loran and Lodestar DF as well? Seen those before.

Notices to Mariners (including chart corrections) are/were issued every week. As long as the 2nd Mate kept up to date it was a couple of hours work a week to apply them. Same with correction to ALRS (radio signals).

It was a bit of a bind if you were on a long passage and you got a month's worth arrive at once but not difficult.

 

[endure]

You probably had Decca, Loran and Lodestar DF as well? Seen those before.

All the ships I sailed on had Decca Navigator which was useful around the UK/Europe.

DF was a statutory requirement and had to be fitted. Lodestar was the Marconi version. I can't remember ever using it to do any DFing - only swinging a ship to calibrate it.

Never sailed with Loran.

 

[Nomad1382]

And when something like a big solar flare or an EMP burst fries the AI and quantum tech (because all this new stuff is EMP hardened, isn't it!) what are you going to do then?

While our "old mans" attitude may piss you off, I would say that your "young mans" attitude presses my buttons. Maybe it's just my "always have a plan B" attitude, but I've been in too many cases where the first thing went wrong and I needed to revert to something else.

Of course you can always sit there and think "what could possibly go wrong".

It actually is, I can think of 3 facilities here that test specifically for EMP exposures.

 

[oldsoak]

Dont forget theres INS as well in ships and subs.

 

[AULD_SWEAT]

Notices to Mariners (including chart corrections) are/were issued every week. As long as the 2nd Mate kept up to date it was a couple of hours work a week to apply them. Same with correction to ALRS (radio signals).

It was a bit of a bind if you were on a long passage and you got a month's worth arrive at once but not difficult.

Was how I passed many a watch.

 

[Dicky Ticker]

It actually is, I can think of 3 facilities here that test specifically for EMP exposures.

Oh yes, some gear is hardened.

Bet your laptop and iPhone aren't!

 

[merchantman]

All the ships I sailed on had Decca Navigator which was useful around the UK/Europe.

DF was a statutory requirement and had to be fitted. Lodestar was the Marconi version. I can't remember ever using it to do any DFing - only swinging a ship to calibrate it.

Never sailed with Loran.

I used the DF many times, I sailed with an old man who insisted on it. Approaching Ushant from the south you could get a useful position by taking a DF bearing of the light as you crossed the 100 fathom line, gave you an idea of where you were.

In one company I sailed with they would put a decca with the charts required on the ship at the first UK port, then take them off again when the ship went deep sea. On the east coast you might do Hull, Newcastle and a couple of continental ports so it came in useful.

 

[Nomad1382]

Oh yes, some gear is hardened.

Bet your laptop and iPhone aren't!

True but my laptop and iPhone aren't running a combat ship's nav/fighting systems which is what was being discussed.

 

[merchantman]

The Germans are investigating the loss of the Verity from a criminal perspective

Germany begins investigation into Verity sinking | Insurance Marine News

German authorities have already begun investigating charges of negligent homicide and endangering shipping traffic in the wake of this week’s collision between bulk carrier Polesie (IMO 9488097) and smaller cargo ship Verity (IMO 9229178) off the coast of Helgoland and near Bremerhaven. The...

insurancemarinenews.com

 

[Old Scribes]

Man made peril in addition to natural peril. "Cut back on maintenance of safety equipment".

Lifeboat fell off Attenborough ship in accident off Mull

Three people were in the lifeboat when it dropped from RRS Sir David Attenborough.

www.bbc.co.uk