Those In Peril Upon The Sea

philc

LE
Would it be fair to say the cruise liner operators would of rather put the passengers through all sorts of shite than accept a sea going tug or two due to costs?
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Would it be fair to say the cruise liner operators would of rather put the passengers through all sorts of shite than accept a sea going tug or two due to costs?
Quite possibly yeah.

I’m no expert on these things but I believe a Lloyd’s Open Form is basically a binding contract between the rescuing vessel and the stricken vessel.

It’s not really set in stone but I believe the general gist of it is “I’ll save your life but I’m having your ship and cargo (or monetary equivalent) as payment.”

Faced with the choice of A) dying and losing your ship or B) living and losing your ship, you’ll clearly take the latter option.

Obviously the rescuers are also risking a lot so it’s gotta be worth their while.

Either way you lose the ship (or a shit ton of money), either to your rescuers or to the waves with you still on it.

In a situation where life isn’t threatened, it’s generally better not to take an LOF. In this case they can probably ride it out, wait till the weather improves and get some engineers onboard to sort it. The cruise company has to pay out a few million in compo claims to injured / pissed off passengers. They can probably get away with citing an act of god or something. Always read the small print.

Certainly a lot cheaper than the entire value of that ship and its contents.

One of the contributing factors to the Penlee Lifeboat disaster was the reluctance of the skipper of the stricken vessel to accept an LOF from a tug.
 
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But not every situation a tug comes out is done under a Lloyds Open Form. I would imagine the tugs that went out were charted, and thus their ability to "claim" severely limited.
 
Holy shit ! Now that is hardcore .
Working vessels of Brazil and the helicopter pilots would fly the crew out in any weather. They just needed a few practice runs to replicate the deck movement before they fell out the sky onto the helideck.

Watching from the bridge you would see the helicopters disappear under the the rising and plunging helideck before re-emerging to land
 
I have fond memories of drinking in the disco/bar on the Belfast/Liverpool ferry while the stools chittered across the floor (first one way, then the other, then back again) like a herd of baby daleks.
I've had a few loose stools whilst I've been at sea but that was more down the chef's cooking.
 
Why aren't they in their cabins on their bunks? Why sit around in a place that's full of flying debris?
Stupidity, a lot of Viking customers are aged Septics.
Or
1. You are afraid that you are going to die
2. You are afraid that you are not going to die
When you can feel a hard little lump in your throat, swallow hard, it's your ar*ehole.....
 
Quite possibly yeah.

I’m no expert on these things but I believe a Lloyd’s Open Form is basically a binding contract between the rescuing vessel and the stricken vessel.

It’s not really set in stone but I believe the general gist of it is “I’ll save your life but I’m having your ship and cargo (or monetary equivalent) as payment.”

Faced with the choice of A) dying and losing your ship or B) living and losing your ship, you’ll clearly take the latter option.

Obviously the rescuers are also risking a lot so it’s gotta be worth their while.

Either way you lose the ship (or a shit ton of money), either to your rescuers or to the waves with you still on it.

In a situation where life isn’t threatened, it’s generally better not to take an LOF. In this case they can probably ride it out, wait till the weather improves and get some engineers onboard to sort it. The cruise company has to pay out a few million in compo claims to injured / pissed off passengers. They can probably get away with citing an act of god or something. Always read the small print.

Certainly a lot cheaper than the entire value of that ship and its contents.

One of the contributing factors to the Penlee Lifeboat disaster was the reluctance of the skipper of the stricken vessel to accept an LOF from a tug.
My recollection is that a Loyds Open Form contract is on a "no cure no pay" basis. No matter what effort the salvor puts into the salvage operation, if the ship and cargo are lost the ship owner pays nothing. The salvor could recover nothing no matter what the effort cost. The form, in all that I have seen, requires that the parties agree to arbitration before arbitrators appointed by the Underwriters at Lloyds. The arbitration is usually fairly favorable to the salvors as it is in Lloyds interests to keep the salvors in business and interested in salvaging vessels at risk.

Admiralty Law is an odd field. In the US, all admiral cases are in the Federal courts, which have exclusive jurisdiction spelled out in the US Constitution. The liability is limited to the value of the ship and cargo. If the ship is on the bottom the limit of liability could nothing. At Common Law the oldest lien to attach takes priority, at admiralty law the most recent lien takes priority.

If a ship is sued in US courts the case is not called "Smith v Rustbucket inc" but "In rem MV Rustbucket" . Many admiralty cases settle quickly. If anything breaks causing injury there is strict liability due to a "breach in the warranty of seaworthiness" When the Proctor in Admiralty (i.e. the lawyer in admiralty court) files an In Rem libel (i.e. complaint) an arrest warrant is issued and a US Marshal goes to the ship, posts a copy of the warrant in the wheelhouse and puts a keeper on board. Ship does not move until the case is over or until the ship posts a bond in the amount claimed. A ship that can't move and with keeper costs adding up the shipowner often settles quite quickly.

Back in the '70's a lawyer I know who practiced primarily as a proctor in admiralty had a case where a shackle holding a "barn door" (big metal bound wooden thing that holds a trawl open) broke and a member of a fishing crew lost his little finger. It was strict liability case and the fisherman got $150,000 for his pinkie finger, at the time the largest judgement for a lost finger. The proctor got a third.

Full disclosure: I only tried one admiralty case in my career, my client sold equipment to the ship and was not paid. Once the vessel was arrested the ship found the funds to pay quickly.
 

merchantman

War Hero
An interesting titbit from Lloyd's List:

Passenger (cruise) Viking Sky safely berthed in Kristiansund, at 1640 hrs, today. The vessel will be repaired in the Vestbase Yard there. Meanwhile it became known that the engines of Viking Sky, had failed because of relatively low levels of lubricating oil in the engines. All four engines had failed, but the crew managed to restart one of the engines just in time. The conclusion of the the Norwegian Maritime Authority was that the engine failure was directly caused by low oil pressure. The level of lubricating oil in the tanks was within set limits, however relatively low, when the vessel started to cross Hustadvika. The heavy seas probably caused movements in the tanks so large that the supply to the lubricating oil pumps stopped. This triggered an alarm indicating a low level of lubricating oil, which in turn caused an automatic shutdown of the engines. Viking Ocean Cruises upon these findings have inspected the levels on all the sister ships and were now revising our procedures to ensure that this issue cannot be repeated. -- Correspondent.
 

merchantman

War Hero
Quite possibly yeah.

I’m no expert on these things but I believe a Lloyd’s Open Form is basically a binding contract between the rescuing vessel and the stricken vessel.

It’s not really set in stone but I believe the general gist of it is “I’ll save your life but I’m having your ship and cargo (or monetary equivalent) as payment.”

Faced with the choice of A) dying and losing your ship or B) living and losing your ship, you’ll clearly take the latter option.

Obviously the rescuers are also risking a lot so it’s gotta be worth their while.

Either way you lose the ship (or a shit ton of money), either to your rescuers or to the waves with you still on it.

In a situation where life isn’t threatened, it’s generally better not to take an LOF. In this case they can probably ride it out, wait till the weather improves and get some engineers onboard to sort it. The cruise company has to pay out a few million in compo claims to injured / pissed off passengers. They can probably get away with citing an act of god or something. Always read the small print.

Certainly a lot cheaper than the entire value of that ship and its contents.

One of the contributing factors to the Penlee Lifeboat disaster was the reluctance of the skipper of the stricken vessel to accept an LOF from a tug.

One of the popular misconceptions surrounding Lloyd’s Open Form is that the salvor takes ownership of the salved property on completion of the services; this is not correct.

Lloyd’s Form is designed to speed up the negotiations in what is usually an emergency situation by taking out of the process the need to discuss the cost of the services. The salvor agrees to use his best endeavours to salve the casualty and “her cargo freight bunkers stores and any other property thereon but excluding the personal effects or baggage of passengers master or crew “ on a “no cure no pay” basis. The payment which the salvor is to receive for his services can be dealt with later.

Once the salvage services have been successfully completed the salved property is redelivered to it’s owners with the agreement that it will not be moved from the place of safety where it was redelivered without the written agreement of the salvors until such time as adequate security has been provided for the salvors claim. At this stage the representatives of the various parties (usually their solicitors) will seek to agree the amount to be paid. If an agreement cannot be reached the matter will go to arbitration before an arbitrator appointed by the Council of Lloyd's.

The arbitrator, after hearing evidence from all parties, then makes an award based on the criteria set out in Article 13 of the Salvage Convention 1989. This cannot exceed the value of the salved property at the time and place of the termination of the salvage services (the salved fund). The award rarely exceeds 50% of the salved fund and then only if the fund is very low coupled with a difficult service or the ship and her cargo would almost certainly have been lost but for the intervention of the salvors. In a straight forward service the award may be a very low percentage of the fund but looking at an award in purely percentage terms is not the way these things are done, the services as a whole must be taken into consideration after reviewing the services against the 10 criteria set out in the salvage convention.

There are other factors which might affect the award but this is a simplified version of how things work in practice.
 

theinventor

Old-Salt
One of the gotchas here is that it's the owner of the cargo who pays a significant chunk of the salvage operation.

I was caught out by this many years ago when I was posted to Cyprus very soon after returning from BAOR with a brand new tax-free car that I couldn't sell (without paying the tax) . It seemed like a good idea to take it with me so a quick scour of the yellow pages found me a shipping company who'd put it in a container and send it out there for me.

A month later and no sign of my car. Then a very official looking letter appears informing me that the ship had had a prang en route and needed recovery and repairs. No worries thinks I... The driver screwed up and some compo coming my way for the the delay. Read on a bit and it's far worse: salvage assessed at 20% of cargo value and if I would be so good as to provide a cheque approx equivalent to the tax free "saving" I'd just made I could have my car after all, a month late.

When my tour ended I drove home. 800 miles but much cheaper.
 

merchantman

War Hero
Seems it is not only the usual perils of the sea which can bite you on the arse; watch out for dodgy owners also!!

Twas ever thus


London, Oct 10 -- A press report, dated Oct 8, states:


A Greek shipowner orchestrated a plan for men posing as pirates to attack and set fire to his tanker (crude oil tanker Brillante Virtuoso), in an elaborate fraud to seek $77 million in insurance money, a London judge found. In 2011, Marios Iliopoulos lured the ship's master and chief engineer, as well as seven Yemeni coast guards, into a conspiracy off the coast of Yemen still being investigated by the City of London Police, Judge Nigel Teare ruled Monday (Oct 7). Drawing a line under years of legal battles, the judgment dismissed a claim by Suez Fortune Investments, a company linked to Iliopoulos, and its Greek bank to force a syndicate of insurers to pay out. "The constructive total loss of Brillante Virtuoso was caused by the wilful misconduct of the owner, Mr. Iliopoulos," Teare said. "The motives of the armed men were not to steal or ransom the vessel or to steal from the crew, but to assist the owner to commit a fraud upon underwriters."
 

philc

LE
I have read a couple of books like this, the lives of the crew, the Filipinos, Indonesians, Indians getting a shit time from officers and unscrupulousness owners, right from nasty bullying, to rape, to murder thats life at sea for many.

 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Thank you for reminding me why I did not join the Navy!
 

endure

GCM
I have read a couple of books like this, the lives of the crew, the Filipinos, Indonesians, Indians getting a shit time from officers and unscrupulousness owners, right from nasty bullying, to rape, to murder thats life at sea for many.


Deep sea fisherman is the most dangerous job in the UK.

 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer

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