Those aircraft carriers just got more expensive,much more expensive...........

Discussion in 'Royal Navy' started by vvaannmmaann, Nov 10, 2010.

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  1. At £800 million per ship, one presumes it's intend to craft them from the finest unicorn horn and lubricate them with angels tears.
    I suspect Mr Fox will be having a stern word in Babcockups ear after this latest wah from them.

    Carrier costs 'to rise by £500m' - Defence Management
  2. Going slightly OT here but that'll teach Babcock to take over VT group,

    This AC issue has been nothing more than a Forces National fiasco
  3. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Sooooo, nobody noticed the absence of the catapults on the original drawings then . . . . . . Seems like someone either needs to be kicked around the car park for half and hour, or their's a clause needs looking at in a contract somewhere.

    Edited to add: Surely, nobody in their right mental state thought that the only thing to ever fly off those carriers was going to be VSTOL shinies!
  4. You can just see the effort that went into the estimate.......

    'Think of a number. Double it and add 10%!'
  5. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    1. Not steam, electro-magnetic. The new design has to be made to work, at a cost which has to be paid for the first ship, but will be less for the second (if it is ever refitted). The new type cats are needed (a) because the old steam ones were only just ablr to do the job for Buccaneer and Phantom - indeed our Phantoms had to be re-engined before they could get off the deck on the old Ark Royal's cats - and (b) for more sensitive performance needed for UAVs. Boosting the steam pressure is not an option if you want the pilot to be able to see after take-off. Working EM cats do not exist yet, but the USN HAVE to make the idea work which is a useful safety net. Highly unlikely CdeG could ever be retrofitted though as she probably lacks sufficient generator capacity due to going nuke on the cheap using unsuitable submarine reactors. This may prejudice future cross-decking to her.

    2. Babcock have the MoD over a barrel, as do many contractors once MoD needs to change or extend the original contract. They are a company, not a charity.

    3. Biped is just being silly. The design as always 'fitted for but not with' and predicated on VSTOL initially with a much earlier in-service date.

    4. Don't expect the whole thing to come together before 2024. Govt knows there will be no war before then.
  6. The carriers get £800 m more expensive.............BUT each aircraft will be significantly cheaper, so its a bits swings and roundabouts. That £800m will be spent in the uk rather than be sent to Uncle Sam for the extra cost of the F35B.

    One small point of order, its likely the CVF's will be fitted with the worlds first electric launch system rather than steam Catapults of old. (either the EMALS or EMCAT systems). This will offer many attractions including a lot less wear an tear on the F35 airframes.
  7. Oh well so long as the Carriers stay well below that 20+ billion that Typhoon cost they are hardly very expensive in British Defence kit terms, especially given their huge ultility to British Forces and UK generally. Typhoon being such a good, multi role, aircraft that we need to keep old Tornados doing CAS in Afghan.
  8. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    At least they've no longer got concrete cannons!

    Edited to add: I see your point Seaweed, but IMHO, the carriers will, have, are always going to have to be equipped with cats of some description. There was never a time when this would not have been the case, so it should have been costed into the original quotation, even if it was only development estimates.

    The way the story is coming out, it's like a big surprise and another MOD cluster****
  9. If Babcockup told me today was Wednesday, I'd double check with a different source.

    Babcock and Co are not too chuffed that it's perfectly possible that refit work for CVF may end up with a French yard, Babcock start badmouthing MOD all week. Concidence?
  10. That would be 2 ships versus 232 aircraft, you silly boy.
  11. Benjamin - you keep forgetting that to Iron Duke anything that has RAF written on it is inherently wrong, smoothered in pure 'I hate the Navy evil juice' and designed to bomb houses containing orphans from dead naval heros. After all, we all know that the RAF high command is so determined to wipe out the RN, that they will stop at nothing to further their dastardly plan.

    Or it could just be that Iron Duke is full of hysterical BS, and has rapidly become an utter laughing stock on both this forum and elsewhere...
  12. In fairness, some of what he writes I actually agree with.

    Regrettably he falls into the Ward trap of failing to remain impartial by presenting factually incorrect and prejudiced statements, largely based around personal opinion. In so doing, I fear he and his PTT actually damages the RN's cause.

  13. And in fairness Magic I do not consider you a fully paid up member of the anti Carrier brigade.

    Jim you might have a point except I do not even slightly dislike the RAF, except in so far as some of its very senior officers are anti FAA.

    As to "that would be 2 ships versus 232 aircraft..." That would be two ships that can put aircraft exactly where they are needed from a secure base with no basing rights problems and, very often, no over flight problems, ships that can do both strike and provide CAS to the Army and RM's, not to mention providing air defence to the fleet. Put Hawkeye on those ships and they can do much more too. In due course those same ships will also be excellent unmanned aircraft platforms.
  14. No they wont. They'll be bought from Converteam UK.

    And the article is yet another load of bollocks released by Babcock. The latest developmental model of EMCAT was £650,000 for the whole program, full scale ones are expected to be around £15m.