Thise who flaunt the poppy on their lapels know they mock the war dead

#2
Robert Fisk said:
What he meant was that all kinds of people who had no idea of the suffering of the Great War – or the Second, for that matter – were now ostentatiously wearing a poppy for social or work-related reasons, to look patriotic and British when it suited them, to keep in with their friends and betters and employers.

These people, he said to me once, had no idea what the trenches of France were like, what it felt like to have your friends die beside you and then to confront their brothers and wives and lovers and parents.
I don't know what it's like to be a mong, spas, fuzzy-wuzzy, lifeboat or donkey* but still donate to these causes & others...

FFS wear a poppy or don't, it's your choice. To quote, "You can rob me, you can starve me...and you can beat me and you can kill me. Just don't bore me."

*well obviously I know what it's like to be hung like a donkey :wink:
 
#3
I agree with him about the likes of the BBC - I'd rather see a newsreader not wearing one then know the only reason they are is because the BBC wardrobe department gets a load delivered to them.
 
#4
Mr Fisk might just like to remember that he can spout his views without fear of being arrested because so much blood has been spilled on his behalf.

Big fan of Gadhafi so he´s a bit p*ss*d off at the moment,******!
 
#5
Who cares what spakker wears them. As long as they have donated and it goes to the right cause
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#6
I do have to say (and I can't be arrsed reading the article) that there is a type of rememberance person who seems more like a cheerleader than a rememberer. That said a good old chunk of the population were cheerleading when these recent wars started, even with all the demonstrators who said 'not in our name'. Some years later people have sobered slightly, with maybe enough lads and lasses having died to have that 'wait a moment' epiphany even if they're not directly effected. I have to say it's quite scary how rapidly the reports of KIAs are coming in over the last few weeks/months, it use to be every few weeks or a month, it almost seems weekly at the moment. Perhaps politicians will realise that boots on the ground (other than SF) is a zulu option rather than getting their jollies off at being a 'war leader', and the population realise that our leaders and important people are ****ing psychos.

It's all well and good remembering lads and lasses (and even enemy) sacrifices at the going down and the morning, but how about when it's the middle of the day when there's enough light to see clearly or practice foresight?

I wrote in a card of support recently, and I used a phrase I find myself using quite often 'The British Army doesn't choose enemies, it fights them'.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#8
I do have to say (and I can't be arrsed reading the article) that there is a type of rememberance person who seems more like a cheerleader than a rememberer.
Well....maybe you should instead of taking the sub-headline as an accurate reflection.

He is recalling his father - a veteran of 3rd Arras;
old Bill Fisk became very ruminative about the Great War. He learned that Haig had lied, that he himself had fought for a world that betrayed him, that 20,000 British dead on the first day of the Somme – which he mercifully avoided because his first regiment, the Cheshires, sent him to Dublin and Cork to deal with another 1916 "problem" – was a trashing of human life. In hospital and recovering from cancer, I asked him once why the Great War was fought. "All I can tell you, fellah," he said, "was that it was a great waste." And he swept his hand from left to right. Then he stopped wearing his poppy. I asked him why, and he said that he didn't want to see "so many damn fools" wearing it – he was a provocative man and, sadly, I fell out with him in his old age. What he meant was that all kinds of people who had no idea of the suffering of the Great War – or the Second, for that matter – were now ostentatiously wearing a poppy for social or work-related reasons, to look patriotic and British when it suited them, to keep in with their friends and betters and employers. These people, he said to me once, had no idea what the trenches of France were like, what it felt like to have your friends die beside you and then to confront their brothers and wives and lovers and parents. At home, I still have a box of photographs of his mates, all of them killed in 1918.

So like my Dad, I stopped wearing the poppy on the week before Remembrance Day, 11 November, when on the 11th hour of the 11 month of 1918, the armistice ended the war called Great. I didn't feel I deserved to wear it and I didn't think it represented my thoughts
A fellow journalist ( who had covered the Falklands as a young embed) I encountered in Afghanistan earlier this year told me that Fisk had lost the plot. His anti-Americansim ( and virulently anti Israeli) stance has made him a lot of enemies.

But when I read this piece, I recalled what Harry Patch , the Last Fighting Tommy, said about the whole Remembrance Day issue.....look it up. If any man had a right to those views it was Harry Patch.....and Robert Fisk's Dad....


I wrote in a card of support recently, and I used a phrase I find myself using quite often 'The British Army doesn't choose enemies, it fights them'.
Said it.

Remember the dead.....cherish the living.


Goats
 
#10
Having read it, I think young Fisk needs to get himself in the Army quick, smart. Classic Father issues.
 
#11
I wouldn't care if Ian Huntley wore one ad long as the RBL got a quid.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#12
Having read it, I think young Fisk needs to get himself in the Army quick, smart. Classic Father issues.
The British Army may be hard up for recruits....but 'young Fisky' is getting a bit long in the tooth for Basic....he was based in Beirut throughout the Lebanese civil war in the 1980s , despite the daily and very real possibility of being kidnapped A La Terry Waite.....it was in Beirut that he picked up the dim view of the IDF after they allowed the Phalange(?) militia into the two refugee camps on the border there.....

Then in the early 90s he made himself a bit of a pain to the US authorities by covering/uncovering some rather careless Warthog strikes on a column of unarmed civilians in Kosovo.....ah how time flies....been around the block and then some....recently covered the Libyan conflict and if he's in Syria its a fair bet it is all about to kick off......a bit like Kate Adie (AKA 'The Angel of Death' ) when he rocks up it's time to keep your CBA within arm's length....
 
#13
The British Army may be hard up for recruits....but 'young Fisky' is getting a bit long in the tooth for Basic....he was based in Beirut throughout the Lebanese civil war in the 1980s , despite the daily and very real possibility of being kidnapped A La Terry Waite.....it was in Beirut that he picked up the dim view of the IDF after they allowed the Phalange(?) militia into the two refugee camps on the border there.....

Then in the early 90s he made himself a bit of a pain to the US authorities by covering/uncovering some rather careless Warthog strikes on a column of unarmed civilians in Kosovo.....ah how time flies....been around the block and then some....recently covered the Libyan conflict and if he's in Syria its a fair bet it is all about to kick off......a bit like Kate Adie (AKA 'The Angel of Death' ) when he rocks up it's time to keep your CBA within arm's length....
He still hates himself though
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#14
Mon Cher Grenouille - a toi le dernier mot ;-)
 
#15
I read the article and found it to be a tad shite. This Robert Fisk is a journalist and he has used his father and him trying to tell us that he has been to many wars and so his opinion counts (typical journo scum). Well I am sorry it doesn't. He may have been to many wars, but only as a journalist, so in essence he is a war tourist and can get out whenever he wants.

What he does not realise is that the act of wearing a poppy is the act of remembering those that have died for this country and its freedoms. Freedoms he is using to insult the act of remembrance. Wearing a poppy is not trying to imagine what it was like in the trenches as he seems to think, for that is impossible. Soldiers today can't imagine what it was like, only those that were there can.
 
#17
I've got nothing to say on the poppy issue, but 'this' Fisk is the absolute expert on what's gone down in the Mid East and what's likely to go down. Given a choice of a briefing from the head of the CIA or from Robert Fisk I'd go for Fisk every time. You don't get voted as International Journalist of the Year seven times without one hell of a track record. You don't get to interview Osama bin Laden three times without having some powerful connections on the other side. Whether you like the other side or not, war reporting is just that -- getting to talk to everybody in a war and reporting back. Not doing PR work behind layers of sandbags as an enbedded reporter. An enbedded journalist gets the same treatment as an enbedded whore.

Anybody who wants to know the real truth about the mess the West has made of the Middle East -- should there be any such here -- could start by reading Fisk's book "The Great Battle For Civilisation."

One thing is certain: Fisk has covered at least six wars and spent very time in hotel rooms during any of them. Or in base camps either.
 
#18
I've got nothing to say on the poppy issue, but 'this' Fisk is the absolute expert on what's gone down in the Mid East and what's likely to go down. Given a choice of a briefing from the head of the CIA or from Robert Fisk I'd go for Fisk every time. You don't get voted as International Journalist of the Year seven times without one hell of a track record. You don't get to interview Osama bin Laden three times without having some powerful connections on the other side. Whether you like the other side or not, war reporting is just that -- getting to talk to everybody in a war and reporting back. Not doing PR work behind layers of sandbags as an enbedded reporter. An enbedded journalist gets the same treatment as an enbedded whore.

Anybody who wants to know the real truth about the mess the West has made of the Middle East -- should there be any such here -- could start by reading Fisk's book "The Great Battle For Civilisation."

One thing is certain: Fisk has covered at least six wars and spent very time in hotel rooms during any of them. Or in base camps either.

So he is the sort of journalist that gets people killed for his glory, such as the one who got himself and his assistant kidnapped after being told not to go in an area due to the risk, which in the end resulted in a para and the journalists assistant being killed.

We all know that a complete mess has been made in Iraq and Afghanistan without reading waffle from a journo.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#20
We all know that a complete mess has been made in Iraq and Afghanistan without reading waffle from a journo.
...and indeed everyone that had any sense could see it coming. Operations at the strategic macro-political national level (i.e. rebuilding infra and superstructure) need to be services lead (at least ex-military). The argument that military planners can only deal with strategy and tactics relating to purely armed matters is a nonsense; they'd make a much better job of it than the people that say they're qualified for it.
 
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