This scapegoating is rolling back the gains of anti-racism..

#2
eSeL said:
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2013353,00.html

Good article in The Guardian today. Highlights something that's been prevailent lately, especially among these pages.
A load of bollocks. Where on earth does he think the main terrorist threat comes from - the Church of the Latter Day Adventists?
 
#3
Did you not read the article? He's not disputing the threat; he's commenting on the isolation & demoninsation of an entire community due to the actions of a few.
 
#4
eSeL said:
Did you not read the article? He's not disputing the threat; he's commenting on the isolation & demoninsation of an entire community due to the actions of a few.
eSeL,

Yep I did and I stand by my comment.

The root of his argument is lies in that oh so yesterday, and fundamentally incorrect, view that the Muslim community are victims of non - Muslim discrimination, racism and prejudice (DRP), and that to further target this 'community' on the apparently unsound basis that the terrorist threat is not linked to Muslims, is yet more of the same DRP.

Sorry, don't subscribe to that particular fantasy.

PAW
 
#5
eSeL said:
Did you not read the article? He's not disputing the threat; he's commenting on the isolation & demoninsation of an entire community due to the actions of a few.
He's complaining that it's a hyped up threat then talks in the next breath about the dozens of arrests in Birmingham (last I knew 9 was less than one dozen). The words pot and kettle spring to mind
 
#6
I disagree.

It perpetuates the cultural separation & victimhood mentalities that other social groupings (aka 'communities') have moved beyond. One could just as easily write an article saying that fear of being labelled racist is in danger of rolling back hard fought gains towards the creation of a peacable and socially integrated country.

To suggest that body count is the appropriate measure of how serious to take a threat seems a little specious. In relative terms, David Copeland hardly killed anyone with his bombing campaign - so the extreme neo-Nazis are not even worth worrying about?

The only point I agree with is on British foreign policy.
 
#7
Mr Jaques makes the following points:

- The Forrest Gate raid (and by extension other similar raids) was "a figment of the security services' imagination".

- The IRA has killed more people on the UK mainland than Islamic terrorists. Not very surprising considering the relative lengths of the terrorist campaigns.

- "when it comes to Muslims, [racism] seems to be somehow acceptable, from the cabinet downwards." This is an over reaction to extremely mild comments made in the last 12 months.

- "The attack on multiculturalism is the thin end of the racism wedge. It seeks to narrow the acceptable boundaries of difference at a time when Britain is becoming ever more diverse and heterogeneous." You could also argue that multiculturalism prevents integration "at a time when Britain is becoming ever more diverse and heterogeneous."

- "[Muslims] face worse discrimination in education and employment than any other ethnic minority." Although Muslims often fair poorly in the education system and job market it would be difficult to prove that this is through discrimination.

- "British foreign policy so profoundly discriminates against the Muslim world" Again this is balls. UK policy in the Middle East has changed much in the last twenty years. Also events in Iraq prove that the idea of a Muslim World is a fantasy.
 
#8
I read the article, and it was cr@p.

Who says it's a minority? I wait in vain for a Million Muslim March, in which a large proportion of our peace-loving minority moves through the streets of Britain chanting, "Suicide bombers, not in my name". Instead all we get is bleating when someone from the 'community' is arrested.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
Erm, this guy is from the LSE for starters, albeit the Asia Studies bit. What authority or knowledge does this guy possess that MI5/MI6 have failed to pick up on?

The Muslim community that got demonised and outraged during the latest raids have gone awfully quiet. One minute, it was a peace-loving community of moderate Muslims being persecuted by a police state, and in the next breath (after evidence found and charges laid) there is not a peep to be heard, apart from the one guy who was released without charge who says that his experience was horrible. I'm sorry if I sound a bit thick, but was this guy electrocuted? Did he have his finger nails pulled out? Was he beaten? Was he starved? Were his family rounded up and tortured? No, none of these things happened to him; He was questioned at length in the presence of his solicitor.

Harsh times indeed!

I don't necessarily disagree with the argument that this despicable gummint will use any excuse to roll back our freedoms, but in terms of rolling back anti-racism, that is being done most effectively in mosques up and down this country without the help of MI6.

This moron who is writing the article needs to climb out of the backsides of his sponsors at the LSE and get himself a strong cup of coffee.

Muppet.
 
#10
Don't agree with everything he says, but...

it is true that people now speak of Muslims in a way that would be considered outrageous if applied to any other community. I have been shocked how the debate has descended into anti-Muslim tirades even in "quality" newspapers, where people think it's OK to slag off a great monotheistic faith and a community of a billion believers just because of a minority of nutcases.

having worked in a Muslim country I cannot recognise the Islam that these "experts" and commentators are talking about. I even wonder if some of them have actually talked to ordinary Muslims, most of whom are pretty relaxed about their religion and adopt a "mosque on Fridays only" attitude towards their faith.

when I was working there I came to admire the simple and devout faith that most ordinary people shared and the way it fills their daily lives. it ended up with reverse culture shock at first when I came back to the West and saw all the drunken layabouts and ladettes on the rampage (although I settled back in pretty quick! :thumleft: )
 
#12
Blimey, Yellow Devil - the brown leather boot-boys that haunt this site will be in with their sneers after that piece of reasoned, sensible and intelligent thought...how dare you!
 
#13
Martin Jacques is a writer and broadcaster. He is writing a book on the rise of China. During the last year he has been a visiting professor at Renmin University, Beijing, Aichi University, Nagoya and Ritsumeikan University, Kyoto. He is presently a visiting senior fellow at the National University of Singapore. He is also a visiting research fellow at the Asia Research Centre, London School of Economics. He was editor of Marxism Today from 1977-1991 and deputy editor of the Independent from 1994-96. He is also a former Sunday Times and Times columnist. He co-edited the book The Forward March of Labour Halted? and co-edited and co-wrote The Politics of Thatcherism and New Times. He was a co-founder the thinktank Demos. He is a columnist for the
Guardian.
link

No comment needed.
 
#15
"Amid this panic-inducing rhetoric, there was little acknowledgment that Muslims suffer more discrimination than any other section of society, no recognition that every attack on their community can only intensify that prejudice. Imagine what it feels like to be a Muslim, stalked by a constant sense of distrust and suspicion? As a society we may condemn racism, but when it comes to Muslims, it seems to be somehow acceptable, from the cabinet downwards."

What shite. Populus poll - table 28 37% of muslims polled consider British jews as legitimate targets. Bourne out by the fact that jews are four times more likely to suffer racist abuse and assaults as muslims - and that they are most likely to be abused or assaulted by muslims. The hypocrisy is nothing short of breathtaking.
 
#16
Obviously, this guy is just another apologist for Muslims. It is not the rest of the UK that has caused the ghettoization of the muslim communities, they have done it to themselves. Other ethnic minority immigrants to this country have either integrated well and their cultures are now celebrated on a wide scale, or they have kept their heads down and live by this countries laws and are happy to live alongside everybody else (before you jump down my throat, I do realize that there are bad elements in all communities who cause problems, but none of them have have tried repeatedly to commit terrorist acts against our society).

The problem is emmanating from the muslim communties, and if they are not going to try to stop it themselves, through banning radical clerics from preaching in their mosques, to stopping influences from places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, they can expect more and more scrutiny from the security and intelligence agencies of this country. The problem and the solution lies in their hands.

Ish.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Bert_Preast said:
"Amid this panic-inducing rhetoric, there was little acknowledgment that Muslims suffer more discrimination than any other section of society, no recognition that every attack on their community can only intensify that prejudice. Imagine what it feels like to be a Muslim, stalked by a constant sense of distrust and suspicion? As a society we may condemn racism, but when it comes to Muslims, it seems to be somehow acceptable, from the cabinet downwards."

What shite. Populus poll - table 28 37% of muslims polled consider British jews as legitimate targets. Bourne out by the fact that jews are four times more likely to suffer racist abuse and assaults as muslims - and that they are most likely to be abused or assaulted by muslims. The hypocrisy is nothing short of breathtaking.
"Imagine what it feels like to be a Englishman, stalked by a constant sense of distrust and suspicion? As a society we may condemn racism, but when it comes to Englishmen, it seems to be somehow acceptable, from the cabinet downwards."

Stick that in your pipe you communist card-carrying, Demos-arrse-kissing retard.

Edited to add: Not you Bert :thumright:
 
#18
Yellow_Devil said:
Don't agree with everything he says, but...

it is true that people now speak of Muslims in a way that would be considered outrageous if applied to any other community.

)
YD

.....not that the Christian faith has ever been under a sustained and venomous attack.
 
#19
eSeL said:
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2013353,00.html

Good article in The Guardian today. Highlights something that's been prevailent lately, especially among these pages.
I agree and the few who don't ought to remember what our grandfathers fought for and died for during world war two. They saw first hand that some men can build a case to justify the persecution and extermination of human beings. They witnessed the horrors that can happen when persecution of minorities goes unchecked-so get a grip and keep a balanced view.
 
#20
hansvonhealing said:
Blimey, Yellow Devil - the brown leather boot-boys that haunt this site will be in with their sneers after that piece of reasoned, sensible and intelligent thought...how dare you!
Would that be anybody who disagrees with your point of view then? You commit the same offence as people who treat the Muslim community as an entity - they are not and neither are people who disagree with you.
 

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