This needed saying

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by jonwilly, Apr 13, 2007.

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  1. "The Army needs its own jurisdiction, administration, discipline, ethos, and these things have to be different from civilians. Because you can’t just put people in khaki and give them a rifle and tell them to fight.

    "There has to be a psychological preparation, developing of values which allow people in the end to make the ultimate sacrifice willingly. Right through history, these people had a sense of duty, of honour, of belief in what they were doing. That has now all been got rid of.

    "The Commanding Officer used to be a feared and respected figure. Now, as soon as he makes some disciplinary judgment it can be overridden by civilians.

    "So the soldiers have become disorientated. The modern approach of society, with the emphasis on rights, has now been imported into the military - and with disastrous results."

    Gen Sir Mike Rose

    After all the Cr ap of the last few weeks it's good to hear the above from a man who can be respected.
  2. Agreed, it's becoming all too common now where some pasty faced little tosser complains about thier rights with a 'you can't say / do that' , even when deployed. Good that he said it but, as we all know, it won't make a blind bit of difference
  3. Agreed, where did that statement come from, what is the wider context, any links?
  4. "developing of values which allow people in the end to make the ultimate sacrifice willingly. Right through history, these people had a sense of duty, of honour, of belief in what they were doing"

    Finally the right words.

    The bottom line chaps is, in my belief, this:

    From pass off at phase 2 to commissioning at RMAS a set of values is drilled, taught, learned from ones peers and (occasionally,figuratively) beaten into us.

    The classic example: My buddy comes first, then my weapon, then my equipment, then myself - if that means I have to suffer for the good of the majority - so be it.

    This learning process continues throughout our careers and finally when the dark day comes that we become part of 1 (UK) Civ Div - the horrible truth dawns:

    These ARE NOT the values of the society we serve
  5. British society still has values? 8O
  6. And who strangely enough is promoting a new book in one of the tabloids that was involved albeit unsuccessfully in the very recent stories for cash debate. Now perhaps if he wasn't working at lining his own pockets and was not using the tabloids his points of view might carry more weight where they matter.

  7. Small Army, aren't we a defence force now? Like the naval fleet is a flotilla? and the Air Force are tossers? :D
  8. Where did he get this rubbish from?

    The mainstay of occassions where a CO's decision as to disciplinary matter is overridden is where the CO's decision is appealed against and found to be incorrect or otherwise wanting in some respect.

    And what is wrong with that - is he saying that the CO should be able to make a decision as to a disciplinary matter knowing that it cannot be appealed against and reckless as to whether it is correct or not?
  9. Appeals against a COs disciplinary decision are gebnerally heard by a military court, (in effect a Courts Martial Board).
  10. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    Typical senior officer crap. Cpls slap privates and the RSM instills the fear of god in the entire Bn from PTE up to most of the Captains..
  11. Is he referring to the CO dismissing charges only for them to be then taken up by civilian justice system a la Tpr Williams?
  12. Just because the rest of this society doesn't have any moral standards, isn't justification to me that they are right.
  13. As I undertand that case - the prosecution offered no evidence against him and he was cleared.

    I appeciate the point, i.e. the CO dismissses the charge but the criminal justice system prosecutes regardless, and to that end it appears to make a mockery of the system and riducles the CO. But, there has to be an element of transparency, otherwise it would appear that the CO, knowing that a summary dismissal would bar future hearings could protect his own men.

    In any event this loophole has been closed and COs can no longer dismiss a charge summarily if they cannot deal with it, and do not want anyone else to either.
  14. Bravo - I am in violent agreement with you

    In general the standards of the society we (well, soon to be just you) serve are falling rapidly by the day: led by a PM and Government who repeatedly lie, spin, manipulate and finally evade when found out down to the chav-nation who have to be asked nicely (or even rewarded) to adhere to basic rules

    Thankfully there are exceptions