This is what your government thinks of you......


And this from The Times:

Huge pay rise for Blair crony provokes fury
By Rosemary Bennett, Deputy Political Editor

Lord Irvine gets £22,000 extra but soldiers gain only £500

PUBLIC sector workers erupted with fury last night after the Lord Chancellor was given a £22,000-a-year pay rise while troops preparing for war received less than £500.

Lord Irvine of Lairg, who lives rent-free in a 15-room grace-and-favour apartment in Westminster and has a £2 million pension deal, was awarded a 12.6 per cent increase that takes his salary to £202,736.

This was in contrast to the 3.2 per cent increase for the Armed Forces that will lift the pay of the most junior private from £12,578 to £13,045. Only 80,000 of the lowest-paid privates and lance corporals and their equivalents in the other two Services will do better with 3.7 per cent.

Thousands of soldiers preparing to leave Germany for war were also shocked to discover that they are to lose part of their special overseas allowance while they are engaged in combat.

Gulf War veterans described the pay rise as “derisory” and criticised the decision to cut the overseas allowance. There are also fears that morale will be badly damaged, especially among lower ranks who had leave cancelled so that they could cover for better-paid striking firemen. James Moore, treasurer of the National Gulf Veterans and Families Association, said: “An extra £9 a week is derisory when you think that firemen have been going on strike for a 40 per cent rise and their jobs have had to be filled in by soldiers.”

Downing Street described the awards as firm but fair, while Gordon Brown said that it was essential to keep a lid on public sector pay to prevent inflation taking off.

The Conservatives called Lord Irvine’s pay rise outrageous and accused the Government of double standards. “There is clearly one rule for hard-working public servants and another for new Labour cronies,” Michael Howard, the Shadow Chancellor, said. “Some private soldiers on the way to the Gulf have been told they will receive less than an extra £500 a year. Yet Derry Irvine gets a whopping £22,000-a-year increase. The need to tighten belts has clearly not been extended to the Lord Chancellor.”

The Lord Chancellor, former pupil-master to Tony and Cherie Blair, regularly embarrasses the Government with his expensive taste and high living. He first hit the headlines with the £300-a-roll wallpaper he used to redecorate his apartment. Then last December, it emerged he would receive a pension of £90,000 a year plus a lump sum of £180,000 when he stands down — just as the Government was telling middle-income families they would have to work beyond 65 to stand any chance of a comfortable retirement. After yesterday’s pay rise, Lord Irvine’s pension goes up to £101,000 year.

Defending the latest increase, a Downing Street spokesman said that it was the result of a formula drawn up by the last Conservative Government, which lays down that the Lord Chancellor’s salary must be £2,500 higher than that of the Lord Chief Justice.

Since the Lord Chief Justice himself received an extra £10,000 on top of the general 4.4 per cent rise for judges — to put him on a par with the Cabinet Secretary as required by another formula — Lord Irvine was a double beneficiary.
If you're not enraged by this there is something seriously wrong with you......

Then take into account MQs, Single accom, food etc all going up.

Then no doubt we will all have to pay via a tax increase for Bush & Blairs desert party.

Not alot if anything left :(


Army to strike over 3.2%


Army To Strike

Date: 1/4/03

Press Release.

In the face of industrial action by members of the armed forces over their "pathetic" pay rise the government has announced that the fire service will, as an interim measure, carry out military operations in Iraq.

The army, who have demanded a 40% pay increase on the basis that their job has become more complex and technical since 1945, will begin strike action next Thursday unless a compromise can be reached. It is understood that they will spend their time standing around little bonfires, rubbing their hands together and waving at passing vehicles that sound their horns at them.

Crack fire service personnel, highly trained in tea drinking, darts and snooker are understood to be on standby to undertake front line operations. Using their "red goddess" engines they will charge toward Iraqi lines and attempt to annoy the enemy into surrender by making a lot of noise and spraying water at them.

PM Tony Blair has already stated that the fire service strike of last year has proved that a vastly undermanned service with limited training and unsuitable equipment can perform the duties of a well trained, well equipped and well manned professional force as efficiently and without loss of life.

When it was pointed out to him that the bright red engines would make an easy target he said, "never mind, there`s too many of them anyway, . er is that camera running?"


Maybe they're giving us all this extra cash to pay for Mr Silverman et all for the things that everyone actually needs such as desert boots and combats? They Scaleys from 2 Sigs who were on the TV recently were wearing the same C95 and boots that we all wear at home. Has anyone due to jet off to the great sandpit actually been issued any of this recently promised kit yet?


So lets have the revolution, this country is getting to be a bag of nuts.
Unfortunately I can only whinge and not don my kit and F**K OFF out of it, So find the leader and I will be the sheep....
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

This government came to power on a wave of apathy. In the last election B Liar polled only 49% of a 52% turn out, a record low turn out of any election since WW2. In other words less than a quarter of the voting populous gave him any sort of electoral mandate, and yet he parades around like as if he was a dictator who polled 99.9% of a 100% turn out (yes, I am likening him to Saddam's B'aath party!). In his TV appearance last week he was ridiculed as the "Honourable Member for Baghdad West". He took offence at that, perhaps because someone had the audacity no to trust "trust me Tone" and dared question the fuzzy logic of it all.

This government hates us. It hates the Britain of our fathers. It hates our educational institutions. It hates our national pride. It hates our traditions, it hates our military. These wounded puppy-dogs bleat because the forces won't accept their whinging left of centre politics. It bleats because the people won't follow their agenda of destroying our heritage. It wants us to believe that every institution is racist and instill fear in the hearts of Britons whenever they question the logic of the ruling party. It floods the country with illegal immigrants through its own inability (or unwillingness) to control the asylum crisis. Our schools are unable to teach, in one case in Birmingham a class of 60 children speaks 33 different languages and English is the minority. Our universities are dumbed down and our elite universities are forced to take under-educated students in the name of social engineering. The newly proposed "citizenship exam" for those being granted British Citizenship doesn't say a word about our history and heitage, rather it teaches people how to take advantage of the benefits system and about gay rights! I don't recognise the country I swore to defend any more, and this is what they want. They don't want an established order that we all understand. They want to replace the etsablishment in place with their new establishment, one of unquestioned obedience. Blair has an agenda of taking this country into a homogonised left wing europe where he will one day be president. The only way he can do this is to destroy our sense of national identity, that very thing that would make us say no. He wants us all to be the same, think the same, act the same, so long as that "same" is what he pushes down our throats. We are witnessing a cultural revolution a la Chairman Mao but with creeping subtlety slowly eroding this country's identity.

So ex-dvr, you want a leader? you don't need one becuase you are not a sheep, you have proven that by your willingness to stand up and say "no more!". The time to stand up is now. Persuade your friends and colleagues to take an interest in politics. It affects us all and there should be no excuses for taking a negative attitude and becoming fatalistic. Apply pressure to the opposition parties by joining their local associations. Stand up and be counted at meetings and force them to adopt the policies we believe are right. Get your friends in your units to vote and become politically active. The QRs only prevent you from standing in elections and becoming an agitator, they don't stop your from having and sharing opinions and voting on them in the ballot box. Insist on your vote and use it. If the army as a whole voted against this government that would be over 120,000 people saying no, enough to turn a few constituencies. Just think what would happen if we were joined by every member of the other services? An agenda dominated by the reurn of Britain to the people and not a group of leftist politicos who cliam to speak for a people that have been made too afraid to speak out against them. Ask yourself a question, do you want to live in a world where the greater crime is not rape or murder, but to disagree with a government policy on immigration and be accused of being a racist for disagreeing, or speak out against the banning of fox hunting and be accused of elitism, or to speak out against the destruction of the eductaion system and the denial of our heritage and be called a fascist? If the answer is no, then get up and do something!
So what do we want to see? Let me tell you my manifesto, standards raised in schools and a return of discipline and selection based on ability and teaching to the highest levels of that ability. I want to see universities selecting only the brightest and the best so that their minds can be put to use by this country. I want to keep the Pound. I want to see taxes lowered and "jobs for the left wing boys" dissapear (just open a page of the Wednesday job section in the Guardian and see the "outreach workers for men who have sex with men" jobs being advertised, they cost us taxpayers money!!). I want to see waste in the NHS abolished (299,000 administrators to 269,000 nurses!). I want to see a reduction in the commitments to the armed forces, or increased defence spending to cope. I want to see an end to the influx of illegal immigrants and a controlled system of maintaining our borders so that only the deserving are granted asylum and those with a reason to live i the UK are granted residence. I want to see an end to the erosion of the British identity, the continuence of the Monarchy, the restoration of our history, and an end to needless beurocracy that stifles the entrepreneurial spirit. There should be a fair and appropriate system of social security that requires the young and workshy forced to work or have their benefits withheld. I want to see a strong and commited justice system where the victim has more rights than the perpetrator. i want to see and end to the madness of the compensation culture, and a return of civility.

Is this too much to ask I wonder?
You've just dicked yourself to run for office

You'd get my vote, unless the above just a sales pitch to get you in the seat ;D


War Hero

I like it. A lot of very good points and I am sure that many users of this board will agree with you. Just to pick up on a couple of points:

If the army as a whole voted against this government that would be over 120,000 people saying no, enough to turn a few constituencies.

Sadly, the Services and the Army in particular are not seen as a political entity because the proxy vote dillutes our impact by spreading our votes throughout the UK. Also many of us do not vote as we cannot stand politicians !  ;)

This pay rise is ridiculous.   :mad: I accept that there must be some checks and balances in the public pay sector, but there has to be a more substantial increase for nurses, teachers and ourselves if all of us are to recruit the right calibre of person and retain them for the benefit of this nation.

To pay a soldier just £12 - 13K a year for the long hours, uncertainty and messing round that we all experienced on Op FRESCO, and then a deployment to the ME, is taking advantage of the goodwill and decency of our soldiers, sailors and airmen who regularly act in a variety of roles in the UK and abroad as a force for good. This in my view, is morally wrong and a national disgrace.
Sorry have I strayed into the BNP web site by mistake?

Time to stop believing what the Daily Mail says and join the 21st Century folks.  Remember if you can't take a joke you can always leave. And feel free to stand for election if you are unhappy with our current political masters. Bet you lose your deposit!


War Hero
In the Irish Republic the Army wives formed a political  party to try force the Govt to raise the standard of army pay. We as serving personnel cannot run for office. But a party formed of army wives could be a force to be reckoned with. ;D

What a frighteningly good idea. I wonder how many of our wives or significant others have said "I'd like to give Mr. Blair a piece of my mind" especially in recent times?

I'm sure they could organise themselves into a fornidable force... Yes, it's a good idea :)

Woopert, who are we going to vote for? Labour never gets my vote anyway, The Conservatives are a spent , shadowy force, the LibDems need a leader, I'd have preferred Ming Campbell.

They normally get my vote, because
1. They're not the other two
2. LibDem Defence and Armed Forces policy is broadly in line with the way a lot of us feel.

I regard myself as Centre Right , so I'd be looking for a party that represented me. So that rules out the Torchlit Rally tossers and others of their ilk. Time for a new political party that represents us , and our interests methinks
Woopert, who are we going to vote for?

Sadly I don't know. The Conservatives are too busy running around trying to hug trees because they think that being more like Labour is what will win them votes. I don't care about how many pints William Hague could down in 1 sitting, or Portillo's sexual orientation, or who smoked pot at uni. What I do care about are all the things I listed above.

The point I am making is that the parliamentary Conservative party will only change if grass roots pressure is put on them. If we as individuals become more politically aware then we can start to voice our concerns and force the Conservatives to come up with a forceful opposition. It is and always will be a 2 horse race between Labour and the Conservatives. The LibDems will always be an also ran unless the voting system changes to PR (which would be a disaster. Italy has PR, and it has also had 52 governments in the last 48 years!).  Forming a new political party, while a great concept, won't change a thing.

You've just dicked yourself to run for office

Don't be too surprised if I decide to put myself out there later in life, I am sorely tempted just out of principle if nothing else. That's all a long way off in the future though, assuming I ever decide to do it.

Sorry have I strayed into the BNP web site by mistake?  

Time to stop believing what the Daily Mail says and join the 21st Century folks.

If ever evidence was needed of the kind of thinking I postulated, here it is. My comments have illicited a retort which accuses racism and all that is bad, and equated me with a mindless thug because I dare question the accepted norm. Why should I join the "21st Century" when I don't even know what, if anything, it stands for other than the systematic destruction of my values?


Get real fellas,

The rise is above the rate of inflation.  I already earn more than the majority of my civvy counterparts - especially when you take into account the small beer of my food & accom, medical & dental and the fact that I actually enjoy my job - I don't see too many of them getting sports afternoons or 2 weeks free skiing in the name of adventure training!  If you don't like it, walk. It really is that simple.  Nobody is forcing you to remain in the Army.  

As for the political rants, sorry, but my understanding was that we do what we are told - all this "come the revolution" BS is not very Army and comes across as very fire fighter in terms of attempting to politicise an issue.  The government don't love us?  Boo F***ing hoo.  When was this halcyon time when we were getting free blow jobs in the street?  Have you forgotten the pain of Options?  No government is any different when it comes to looking after public servants.

Yes, the UK is changing, so is every other liberal democracy in the west.  However much I may disagree with some of the changes, liberal democracy is something that I believe is worth defending - the alternatives, whether left or right are not.  Stop dripping and deal with it.  


Army Wives party!  You must be jokin' that many RonHills and stillettos in one place would drive all the way to baghdad.

I do like some of Woopert's points though.  Need a campaign manager?

can't wait to get my hands on that 1.5% - still least we've got LOA (cept if yer going to the Gulf, oops).  Same thing happened in 90/91 - but at least the Tories made up for it with that excellent scam - Water money!  Daily allowance wgich hey pesto just about made up for the loss of LOA.  Is that happening this time?  

Any Black Belt 5th Dan Pay folks care to comment?



In broad terms I agree with much of what you and those who have chosen to reply have stated. However I've got a few things that I think you should add to your list of policies:

1)   An act of parliament to be passed guaranteeing the status of British citizens in Northern Ireland, Gibraltar, the Falkland Islands etc and that enshrines their right to remain British and not be forced into 'dual soverigenty' or whatever the phrase in current usage is.

2)   The RUC to be called the RUC again.

3)   British soverignty to be reaffirmed over our fishing rights and the RN to chase off the foreign trawlers responsible for the collapse in North Sea fishing stocks.

4)   UK law to enjoy primacy over EU laws/directives/whims etc.

5)   Active and effective support for farmers and those dependant on the rural economy.

I'm no knee-jerk Alf Garnett, but those are a few of the things that have really annoyed me recently that weren't covered earlier in this thread. I haven't voted for years, mainly due to work commitments, but this doesn't mean that I'm apathetic or politicaly inept. I just don't wholeheartedly trust career politicians.

:mad: :-X :eek: :( ???

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