This is real racism

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by shaka, Jan 20, 2007.

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  1. The defence of the mosque 'owners' that they are not responsible for what appears in their bookshops or what 'visiting' mad mullahs preach is one that others, e.g. BNP will no doubt adopt. Let's see if sauce for mullahs is sauce for them also?
  2. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    My experience of the people that run mosques is that they are very much run of the mill people with very normal aspirations for their own and their 'congregations'. If you think that people ranting against 'Kafir' is scarey via the TV imagine young people in your mosque, part of your community, and the dilemmas that might present. Now I know the UK isn't Iraq, but last time I checked these types of radicals are too fond of what they 'deem' collaboration, so maybe that's why people 'sit' in silence and don't confront them? Just a thought.
  3. But surely that makes it all the more imperative that you take back your religion from these radicals? Easy for me to say I know, because I'm not the one who'd have to confront them!
  4. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    It's quite a complicated task. Scholars in the way they used to exist (and actually still do in Egypt at Al Ahzar to an extent) don't anymore. With growing literacy texts are available to many more people who can select them at will to justify their ideology. There are many hadith which do deal with the subject of unbelievers (contextually those who fought against Mohammad and by extension Islam) and Jews (not so much Christians as they were not that prevalent in the Hijaz i.e around Mecca and Medina). No Muslim will contest the legitimacy of what Muhammad said, it would be considered unbelief. So it is quite easy to quote hadith, and have people venture no opposition, especially if they feel ill-equipped scholastically. This said however if they were ever confronted by the type of Scholar that used to exist in better times, the radicals would be running for cover. Why do these scholars not exist to any great extent, well it was in days gone by that to be a scholar was the highest level in society. People with good brains in todays world might be more drawn to science and technology than a life devoted to religious study. I'm sure this will change, but at the moment Islam is in flux, or rather the people who follow Islam are.
  5. So it's not possible to challenge the man without challenging Mohammad?

    (edited for clarity-I hope!)
  6. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    I'm sure it is and people do. I saw a young black brother sat in Brixton mosque (of shoe shoe bomber fame) at the end of Jummah prayer by the door holding a book with a title 'Terrorism is not Islam', which I took to be a silent protest.

    The nature of ideology is that people are well versed/indoctrinated in it, it goes without saying. Thus anyone who is a run of the mill believer will have rings run around them. It would be very easy to trip someone like that up, and in fact they probably have well rehearsed scenarios for such an occurence whenever and wherever, from a softly softly approach to hell and damnation. The average muslim's interests are wife and kids job, mother and father, practice of his faith etc., even if knowledgeable he will not have it drilled with an almost battle drill formula. In actuality anyone with the level of knowledge that radicals do possess would be impressed from a religious perspective. They may well feel inferior, i.e. all I do is work, sleep, eat, pray while this brother is really commited to Islam.
  7. Nehustan - thanks for the input. You do not say whether or not you saw the programme in question. The way it was presented was to portray people in a the place of what one assumes corresponds to the pulpit who were preaching acts of extreme violence against a well defined section of the outside community. The tolerance of the persons I refer to a mosque owners in allowing this sort of performance seems beyond belief unless they accept what is being said or advocated. I am eager to accept Islam as a religion of peace but find the language, demeanour and inspiration from the "mad mullahs" anything but peaceful. Even if just one person is sent off to buy peroxide and chapatti flour as a result, it is one too many. I see the sacrifice of one suicide bomber as a waste. I cannot but help wonder what would be the response in a Muslim country if the TV there were to show one of the lunatic anti-Islam British advocating the same cort of conduct. I suspect it would be a rerun of the hysteria we saw after the cartoons?
  8. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    I think that over the last 100 years there has been much playing around in what the Muslims know as 'Dar As Salaam'. Now the average Joe has had nothing to do with this, but there have been conscious players. The radical preacher will exploit a non muslims ignorance (meant in the nicest possible way) of Islam and portray it as active opposition of Islam. Suddenly the person who actively sets out to interrupt political Islam (and Islam has always been political, economics, social as well as a personal spirituality), is seen as the leader of people who think the same, that their actions are supported by the masses. There's no doubt that for instance Tony Blair is against political islam en masse, yet there are so many movements. 'Al Qaeda' for instance is not partial to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. The two are painted as the same. Blair knows they're not the same, it just suits his agenda and political allegiances for them to be seen as the same. So 'Al Qaeda' bombing NY or London, Mubarak is backed with his treatment of his own radicals, even though his own radicals are not 'Al Qaeda' and actively seek to enter the politcal arena. The UK public doesn't know the difference between the flavours of Islamic radicalism, so they support the goverment and the cycle continues. It's the old game of them and us played, very succesfully I might add, by both sides.

    (adding I didn't see the programme RedCap)
  9. I do believe that Mr. Littlejohn has been reading ARRSE and borrowing phrases!

    A good article and one that raises questions that our MPs need to address with the same vigour that they've shown over Z-List 'Celebrity' Big Brother.
  10. Lets face it more people watch BB than Dispatches. At least those watching and complaining BB recognised the combination of ignorance, bullying and racism exhibited by Jade and her mates. Jade may not think she is racist but then she doen't think does she? The Dispatches thing is of concern. These extremists are an articulate minority who will influence the disafffected. But its hardly a suprise or anything new to the Security Services
  11. Nehustan, well said - succinct and erudite.

  12. Nehustan, a very good post,well written indeed. Many thanks
  13. Quick officer, hold him here while I get the other one. Nope, sorry can't because it's against my religion. OH well give him a ticket and on the spot fine instead.

    Pants, complete and utter pants. Exit stage left