This is MY Country!

Discussion in 'The NAAFI Bar' started by patg, Nov 28, 2007.

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  1. OK, first, I was RAPC until I got out in '88 after 23 years and. yeah. I was a WO2, if that helps.

    My credentials? 1 x Borneo ('66), 3 x Op Banner ( '69 thro' '72).

    Why is this my Country?

    I earned my vote. It was my and my family's life that was put on the line between '65 and '88 together with a small number of the rest of the UK's population, your predecessors.

    Yes, being called out at 3/4am each month (in Germany) made the "Cold War" seem real. Especially when the CO did a cash check and made suggestions, totally unfounded, regarding your age!

    Seeing what has gone on since then (we thought Ulster was bad), you guys serving since then and now have my deepest respect, only glad/sad(?) not to be with you.

    As some of you will understand, I feel this is MY country as well as YOURS, we were/are something more than your average civilian, who looks on life as an opportunity to make money, rather than an opportunity to be a Soldier.

    Not a hard objective, join up, get brain changed, get chucked out at 40!

    "Life's a bitch, you get born, you get married, you pay taxes, then you die"


    I have thought for a long time that only persons that earn a vote should have one, you have to earn it! And yeah, I have served with guy's you could not call Christian's, even those who, nominally were.

    Working on that basis, how many of our current Politicians earn that accolade? I think the answer is none.

    OK, bored with this post, now discuss!!!

    Pat G :wink:
     
  2. Get Starship Troopers on DVD. You'll love it...

    'Service guarantees citizenship'!
     
  3. Did'nt the Romans have the same idea?
     
  4. I have to say that's all very well in principle, but actually it's a recipe for disaster because it's not good to let the government start playing around with who's allowed to vote.


    Group X are going to vote for the opposition.


    Oh well in that case a swift bit of legislation forced through to stop them voting ought to do the trick.
     
  5. "If Voting changed anything, they'd abolish it!"
    - proof that even cnuts like Livingston get it right occcasionaly. :x
     
  6. You miss the entire point of being a Soldier if the Realm. Beyond the "its not for us to reason why" crap, you served in a post-war environment, and have excellent credentials, but seem annoyed. Yes,


    You didn't earn your right to vote. You were given it. By men (mainly) who, variously, and over a period of some centuries, fought, sometimes bloodily, for your "right" to have it. If you don't know what a Rotten Borough is, then look it up, and see the reforms of 1832, under Peel.

    You did however, serve a nation, and a notion, which says that all men, and ,more recently, women, should have the vote. Female emancipation is less than 100 years old, as unfortunate as that may seem, when considering Government Ministers who choose to call themselves "Jacqui". All encompassing male voting is only 140 years old, brought in by Disraeli in 1867.

    The people you served (by serving the Queen who serves them, thanks to the revolutionaries of our past), can do with their vote what they will. They can use it or not use it, its up to them.

    Being a Soldier, isn't an opportunity, its a calling if you do it voluntarily, and a complete nightmare if you are forced to be one.

    As far as the public are concerned, its not for you or me to tell them what to do, since we serve(d) them.

    You didn't earn your vote. It was on a plate for you to do with as you saw and see fit.

    Other's may waste theirs, or not have the ability to wield it correctly, in your opinion, but these days, its free, called the Free Vote, and being able to vote freely is the apogee of a mature democracy.

    I completely sympathise with the sentiments of your post. Cold War Warrior is no bad thing. Like you, I am a "victim" of Operation Banner, in fact, in many ways, it defined my life.

    Incidentally, what happened to all that cash?

    Lend us a quid.
     
  7. Romans allowed non-citizenst obe come citizens after time in the Legions.

    Sparta citizens (male) were ALL soldiers. They were allowed to be a politician after 10 (IIRC) years soldiering for one year.

    Up until recently all Swiss, Finnish, Norwegian and Swedish men have been conscripted. All German men have had compulsory service. Bar maybe the odd one or two who were seen as unsuitable.

    The Swiss have long had the practive of 2 week battle camps every 2-5 years between the ages of 20 and 50 (IIRC).
     
  8. The Roman Army bled Rome dry in the early empire, so they came up with a scheme where non Romans would receive citizenship and a grant of land after 9 years service. 9 years in a Auxiliary unit (cavalry, archers or sappers, not in a legion) was close to a death sentence and the land would always be in a trouble spot. Citizenship brought the right to be tried, the right to make contracts, the right to stand for office, the right to own property and slaves and the duties to bear arms when called for and to pay taxation. Children born after the completion of service would also be citizens and could fight in the legions. Non citizens paid no official taxes, they paid occasional tolls or were robbed by special levies.

    I should know I was there, and this was all trees back then you know!

    Voting rights are linked to taxation, if you pay, you should have a say in where your money goes. That's why state pensions and chavvy sponger benefits are taxed as income. So the when I's and the hoodies have their say.

    I'll get my tunica.
     
  9. I agree with you PATG, and in my humble opinion this country is going down hill at a vast rate of knots!! there is no respect totally pi$$ed off with everything :x
     
  10. See, I've had this chat with some of my oppos and we've found the perfect solution..

    National service

    Now I don't mean that everyone has to join up and do military service (as per wedges comment) but there is a lot to do for the pacifists and tree huggers.

    If you don't want to do military service then you can work for the local councils either on a maintenance or administrative bonus (would keep the 2 payrises a year down). Healthcare, we have enough shortages in this area that I don't think I need to give examples. Councilling, care working, childminding.

    Basically in each role it would teach people to resect what they have around them as they have been part of building it and beautification of the area that they live in.

    Rant over :D
     
  11. Yes, but he's only paraphrasing Marx or Lenin (I'm having a brain-dead moment!) who said that once every 5 years the British decide who will dictate to them for the next 5 years... :wink:
     
  12. old_fat_and_hairy

    old_fat_and_hairy LE Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    Marx.

    I think it was Harpo too.
     

  13. Show us your penis..

    Even better, write that down on your penis and show us you posting it to your local MP.
     
  14. the thing about starship troopers was if you wanted to be a politicon you had to have served successfully in the front line.
    the point of federal service was it was dangerous so that would probably count out 75% of currant mp's plus a few more I'm sure the giant space bugs would eat tch :twisted:
     
  15. Yes... Get the book, not the film of Starship Troopers... much better.

    I think if the amount that choose to vote remains so low then earning the vote should become standard.

    It shouldn't just encompass the armed forces as a means. Other services like medical, emergency, teaching and public should be included as well. That way the same broad spectrum of persons will still be able to qualify. This also ensures that those who are physically incapable of being in the armed forces can serve in another capacity.

    What should occur under this system is varying time lengths for time in service before you get the vote. The most dangerous and risky means less time served (armed forces, say 3 years), emergency (5 years), teaching (7 years) and public (10 years). This could be increased by a third for all immigrants who wish to become British citizens, except for their kids who can have their parents work for them (added time). That way those who really want to be a part of this nation can serve the nation. That way only those part of this franchise can run for parliament.

    Thoughts?