"They signed on the line"

#1
Saw this post in another thread and thought I'd bring it up.

Damob said:
I dont buy into this "hero's one and all' bulls*it the sun uses to sell newspapers. I'm not unmoved by the stream of young men in boxes coming back on a daily basis, but they signed on the lin to put theirb bodies between the country and the objective.
[rant]

Every time I hear "they signed on the line" or "they knew the risks", it's like fingernails on a chalkboard. It implies that they shouldn't have joined if they didn't want to get killed, as if the Army does a job that doesn't need to be done.

My mates weren't killed playing some sort of extreme sport; They died in sh*t circumstances doing what the people of this country had asked them to do.

I can't fathom the thinking behind it. If a firefighter was killed trying to rescue you, you wouldn't turn around and say "it's very sad, but he signed on the line so what did he expect?"

[/rant]
 
#3
Yes it is one thing to try and dissipate the gloom with a bluff-hearty "Well if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined" but quite another for somebody to trot out the signed on the line nonsense:

1)I don't recall at any point a member of HM Forces or HMG issuing me with a warning to that effect
2)I didn't sign a waiver over duty of care - mind you body armour had just left service when I first joined to be replaced by roomy smocks, much lighter than the chain mail they were too.
3)Just because, perish the thought, somebody did outline the worst case scenarios - that in no way diminishes the sadness of the outcome.
4)These days people are very much aware of the day to day possible consequences. They still saddle up anyway, which to my mind makes them even more courageous. My generation always had the nagging issue that 3rd Shock Army might want a group ticket to the rhine Army Show; yet the possibility of horrible injury or death was very insulated - stand fast road accidents!
 
#4
DeltaDog said:
If a firefighter was killed trying to rescue you, you wouldn't turn around and say "it's very sad, but he signed on the line so what did he expect?"
Sadly, thats precisely what these sort of people would say. They have no concept of service or sacrifice.
 
#5
I don't think anyone signed on the line to be sent to war without the necessary kit by a government who has always despised the military and it's ethos.
 
#6
DeltaDog said:
Saw this post in another thread and thought I'd bring it up.

Damob said:
I dont buy into this "hero's one and all' bulls*it the sun uses to sell newspapers. I'm not unmoved by the stream of young men in boxes coming back on a daily basis, but they signed on the lin to put theirb bodies between the country and the objective.
[rant]

Every time I hear "they signed on the line" or "they knew the risks", it's like fingernails on a chalkboard. It implies that they shouldn't have joined if they didn't want to get killed, as if the Army does a job that doesn't need to be done.

My mates weren't killed playing some sort of extreme sport; They died in sh*t circumstances doing what the people of this country had asked them to do.

I can't fathom the thinking behind it. If a firefighter was killed trying to rescue you, you wouldn't turn around and say "it's very sad, but he signed on the line so what did he expect?"

[/rant]
Please send link so i can see wtf this goon is upto! :x
 
#9
You could work yourself up into a rage about this, but you have to take a step back and understand the thought process and experiences of people who say this.


" well he signed the dotted line " often comes from someone without military service who has no real concept on the interplay of politics and non-military pressures on the modern forces.

This comment often comes from someone that could not even fathom doing a job without the legions of Health and Safety rules and regulations, the risk assesments, the set in stone employees rights and the backing of work unions.....If these individuals do a job, it is the concrete knowledge that there is " no risk is an acceptable risk " environment.

Getting sent to some Politician created conflict at sometimes no appreciable notice with equipment that only just passed the user trials, having to exist on rationed food and water and sleeping in a mud hut ( if lucky ) is as alien to them as if they were sent to Mars......totally inconceivable that people are put in harms way in anything but ideal conditions.
 
#10
BaldBaBoon said:
You could work yourself up into a rage about this, but you have to take a step back and understand the thought process and experiences of people who say this.


" well he signed the dotted line " often comes from someone without military service who has no real concept on the interplay of politics and non-military pressures on the modern forces.

This comment often comes from someone that could not even fathom doing a job without the legions of Health and Safety rules and regulations, the risk assesments, the set in stone employees rights and the backing of work unions.....If these individuals do a job, it is the concrete knowledge that there is " no risk is an acceptable risk " environment.

Getting sent to some Politician created conflict at sometimes no appreciable notice with equipment that only just passed the user trials, having to exist on rationed food and water and sleeping in a mud hut ( if lucky ) is as alien to them as if they were sent to Mars......totally inconceivable that people are put in harms way in anything but ideal conditions.
Then maybe we should shuttle them of to mars :D
 
#11
Sorry but you take the money you take the chances,heat-kitchen springs to mind :wink: !
If a parachute failed tough it was YOUR choice to do it 8O
If you top the enemy it was their choice and vice versa :cry:
 
#12
Although you have a point 263 what happened to the duty of care to give the blokes the right and best equipment for the job. Also have a look at the ops remit so they can fight on level terms rather than being hamstrung for political motives
 
#14
263A said:
Sorry but you take the money you take the chances,heat-kitchen springs to mind :wink: !
If a parachute failed tough it was YOUR choice to do it 8O
If you top the enemy it was their choice and vice versa :cry:
I quite agree, most of us know there is risk, just as there is in any job, even a desk jockey like yourself :) ! The point being is the turd in mention was for my liking a little crass with his comments in todays envoirement!

But chin up and suck it in!
 
#15
I think the press, the tabloids in particular, are mostly to blame. They have devalued the term 'hero' by applying it to anyone and everyone who wears a uniform theses days. I always used to get embarrassed when someone started banging on about me being a hero, I wasn't, I did my job as best I could and kept my head down as best I could. Hero's start at MC and above to me, I have absolutely no right to stand next to a decorated soldier and be called a hero and the term, when so woefully misapplied makes me cringe.

What the average soldier does in conflict is beyond the comprehension of the average Joe and he is probably in awe of people who will go to these areas and can perform under such extreme circumstances. No doubt it highlights their own self doubt and perhaps reminds them of how little they've done with their own lives. They can't say "Been there, done that" so all they can really do is sneer and make stupid statements like "they signed on the dotted line". What they are actually saying is: "these guys volunteered to do an extremely dangerous job knowing full well that they might be killed doing it". Not necessarily heroes but it certainly makes them worthy of respect, in my book.
 
#16
Markintime said:
I think the press, the tabloids in particular, are mostly to blame. They have devalued the term 'hero' by applying it to anyone and everyone who wears a uniform theses days. I always used to get embarrassed when someone started banging on about me being a hero, I wasn't, I did my job as best I could and kept my head down as best I could. Hero's start at MC and above to me, I have absolutely no right to stand next to a decorated soldier and be called a hero and the term, when so woefully misapplied makes me cringe.

What the average soldier does in conflict is beyond the comprehension of the average Joe and he is probably in awe of people who will go to these areas and can perform under such extreme circumstances. No doubt it highlights their own self doubt and perhaps reminds them of how little they've done with their own lives. They can't say "Been there, done that" so all they can really do is sneer and make stupid statements like "they signed on the dotted line". What they are actually saying is: "these guys volunteered to do an extremely dangerous job knowing full well that they might be killed doing it". Not necessarily heroes but it certainly makes them worthy of respect, in my book.
I concur!
 
#17
Markintime said:
I think the press, the tabloids in particular, are mostly to blame. They have devalued the term 'hero' by applying it to anyone and everyone who wears a uniform theses days. I always used to get embarrassed when someone started banging on about me being a hero, I wasn't, I did my job as best I could and kept my head down as best I could. Hero's start at MC and above to me, I have absolutely no right to stand next to a decorated soldier and be called a hero and the term, when so woefully misapplied makes me cringe.

What the average soldier does in conflict is beyond the comprehension of the average Joe and he is probably in awe of people who will go to these areas and can perform under such extreme circumstances. No doubt it highlights their own self doubt and perhaps reminds them of how little they've done with their own lives. They can't say "Been there, done that" so all they can really do is sneer and make stupid statements like "they signed on the dotted line". What they are actually saying is: "these guys volunteered to do an extremely dangerous job knowing full well that they might be killed doing it". Not necessarily heroes but it certainly makes them worthy of respect, in my book.
Well put!
 
#18
263A said:
Sorry but you take the money you take the chances,heat-kitchen springs to mind :wink: !
If a parachute failed tough it was YOUR choice to do it 8O
If you top the enemy it was their choice and vice versa :cry:
I'm with you on this one.
 
#19
I don't see a lot wrong with the original comment, He did say he was not unmoved by the fallen.

Markintime, I do not agree that gallantry medals make a hero, there's plenty of people killed or seriously wounded who never had a chance to earn one, to me gallantry medals are being in the right place at the right time, being lucky and having the right people around to witness the event.

For me simply being in the situation where you know there's a good chance you could get hurt and carrying on regardless makes you a hero.
 
#20
Count.Dracule said:
I quite agree, most of us know there is risk, just as there is in any job, even a desk jockey like yourself :) ! The point being is the turd in mention was for my liking a little crass with his comments in todays envoirement!

But chin up and suck it in!
(my bold) I say, some of those paper cuts can be quite nasty you know, and if the files have been lying around (oops I mean "under active review")for a long time and gone biological, the wound could turn septic.
 

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