They promise the earth, then do the dirty on you instead.

Discussion in 'Sports, Adventure Training and Events' started by nogrunch, Sep 26, 2006.

  1. Do you think that they shouldn't have joined if they couldn't take a joke?

  2. Or rather that those sportsmen & women who give up their own time, in order to pursue sporti


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  1. I'm an ex squaddie myself, & two of my kids are serving members of the forces at present. My youngest is, or rather was heavilly involved in sport. Eight years ago she took a Gold medal in the Commonwealth tournament; that was when she was still a civvy, & doing a lot of training. Four years ago at the Manchester Games, she had already been 'in' for a couple of years, & she had not had the chance to do any further sports training (in her sport) at all. In fact, prior to the games, her then unit was giving the rugby squad unlimited training time, the footballers got loads of time off, & every other regimental team it seemed, from darts to tiddlywinks got all the time off that they wanted, & more. She instead, was working until 2200+ each night, & at weekends; doing anything but training. She had to take time off as part of her annual leave, to compete at the Games; & she was given not one bit of encouragement or help at all by her unit, or the Army as a whole. It had been 'someone's' job, elsewhere in the British Armed Forces, to compile a book listing every member of the Armed Forces who was competing or officiating in any way at all, at those games; but more of that later. I did pen a letter for her, lying through my eye teeth of course, about all the encouragement she had received from her unit beforehand; which went to her CO. I would have preferred to have told the truth, but she'd have none of it. She came away with a Bronze medal, which was perhaps better than expected, given the circumstances; & the Regiment was read out the news on parade, the next morning (to much cheering, I'm told). After the Games, all those members of the Forces who had attended them in whatever official capacity, were invited to a dinner at The Mansion House, in London; but because her name had been omitted from the BIG OFFICIAL BOOK, as someone hadn't done their job properly, she didn't get an invitation. At least her then unit had helped her with flights & car hire arrangements for competitions; but all was about to change. Her next unit gave her even less opportunity to train, & even less backing or encouragement (if that was at all possible). For the Commonwealth this year, in fact, she was told that 'As you're not representing this unit, or the Army, then 'they' could not help her at all.' I ended up paying for her airfares myself. She took a Silver medal, & of course the Army was proud of her achievements again. This coming weekend she is due to compete in a competition in the UK, but will her unit, or the Army for that matter help with her transport or accomodation costs? You guessed it, NO! & I for one am getting pretty damned upset about it all. (Even more fizzing than I have been for the last six years or so). I did warn her before she joined, that they'd promise the earth, & they did. I know that there are many succesful & otherwise sports people in the Forces, who are aided & nurtured along the path to greatness or mediocrity; but it's the old story; & it all depends on whether your face fits or not, or doesn't it?
  2. I believe this is a sign of the times.

    Not enough manpower.

    Not enough cash.
  3. Nogrunch,

    That sounds pretty crappy to be honest.

    The navy has got a sub lt who has been in a couple of years at least now who has been given a career break until after the Beijing Olympics. Granted he's a bloody good rower and he'll probably get a gold at the Olympics in the coxless 4's however there are many other outstanding athletes in the forces who have not been giving the same amount of time off.

    I had something very similar when I joined up. I was ranked quite high at national level in a track and field event. Got loads of support from one of my first units and when I moved onto my next unit, got zero support from the unit even though at the time, I don't think anyone else in the navy was at the same level as myself in this particular discipline. It got to the stage that people playing unit sport got more support than myself even when I was ranked inside the national top 10.

    It sickened me then and it still sickens me now......
  4. While these people are swanning around the sport track/pitch/ski slope/golf club who's back getting on with 2 peoples job? People like muggins here. Yeah, very good, you're a great sports(wo)man, but you join the military for a job/career, not a means of supporting you between sporting events.
  5. People who are good at sports *should* be given the opportunity to excel however sometimes certain people can get too much time off. I know of a rugby player who was given a career break from the navy before the career breaks where introduced.

    Where do you draw the line though?

    Sorry, so and so, you only managed a silver in the last olympics so we're going to fcuk you off before the next one?
  6. Who do you think was working until gone 2200h every night, & weekends then, whilst everyone else was off swanning hither & thither, & pubbing it?
  7. Who do you think was working until gone 2200h every night, & weekends then, whilst everyone else was off swanning hither & thither, & pubbing it?[/quote]

    Sorry, but that's your problem. Those tankies, chefs, mechanics, drivers etc who are out pubbing it have done their bit, and it's not their fault that they chose a less demanding path in life than your daughter. Needless to say many of these so called 'swanners' have already done a fair few of her duties, for no thanks whatsoever. Your daughter has blindly joined the army, expecting it to foot the bills to get her to the top of her chosen sport. Did she honestly expect to get time off whenever her sporting calender dictated? I feel for all athletes in this situation but I have to side with furq on this one, having received many extra shifts and duties myself for similar reasons. Sportsmen and woman are ALWAYS looked favourably upon by promotion boards whether they care about rank or not, even though they generally learn f*ck all about doing their job for the whole time they 'serve'. How is this fair on those who joined with a succesful army career in mind? An army career takes up a persons whole life, as does a career in sport. As there are only 24hrs in any one day, it looks like she's going to have to make a choice. The bottom line is this; if she's not happy, she knows where the door is. And tell her not to bang her arse on the way out.
  8. Expect some interest where the sport is of direct military relevance. Biathlon - skiing and shooting, no surprise the RM are into it. Most of the rest are supported because they encourage both fitness and teamwork, and have a "retention benefit" as well as a "PR benefit" (rugby trips to sunny places).

    That instantly means that individual events take a hit.

    Other things are supported because they are "adventurous", and develop the fitness/teamwork as well as the ability to face and overcome fear (yachting, climbing big steep things).

    But the Army will support things that the Army sees as "worthwhile" - and someone has to pick up the slack for those individuals participating. Personally, I don't think the Army owes the athletes a thing; it's a "world owes me a living" attitude to get worked up about it, I feel.

    Similarly, don't believe that "the rugby players get all the time off they need" - it's all done subject to the needs of the service. After all, the team that won the Army rugby championships had been on operations until two weeks before the final (much to the chagrin of the runners-up).

    Don't get too worked up, because I doubt it was anyone's job. I was at those same three Games as your daughter (KL, Manchester, Melbourne). The Army only noticed me in my last Games, in Melbourne, because I e-mailed Soldier directly, thinking "the Army" (and perhaps ARA / TARA, by way of thanks) might finally want to get some PR out of it. Even with that mention, I've never been invited to any dinners, and it's certainly never appeared on a CR or influenced a promotion...

    ..OK, there was an oblique reference once when the CO discovered that I'd turned down my first chance to represent GB in my main event at a World Cup, in order to run the Unit FTX for that year.

    My sporting activities didn't clash with the TA. Where they did, the TA came first; it's one reason why I only started competing internationally in my 30s. The nearest I came to asking the TA for a bit of slack was when I went direct to Annual Camp from the above World Cup, arriving about an hour after the Main Body (although no-one ever insisted that I re-do LF11, 13, and 15 prior to attempting my APWT :roll: )

    So, no, your daughter hasn't been hard done by.
  9. And while we're at it, you're poll's sh1t. "Those sportsmen and women, who give up their own time to pursue sporting excellence" is a load of b*ll*cks. For a start, it's the army's time they're giving up, not their own. They signed the dotted line and swore an oath of allegiance. And as for the support they supposedly deserve, try adding up all the time they've had off collectively, compared to the amount of time regular WORKING soldiers get to pursue our interests. I can guarantee you that we lesser examples of humankind have been worse off up until now.
  10. she should be in a hot place so wind your fcuking neck in.
  11. Boll*cks. I've had it up to the eyeballs of being referred to as a second class soldier.
  12. I tried to get time off for a "fast wrist repetetive world record attempt" once, and I was put on stag, so I wasn't complaining, ample opportunity to practice :)
  13. no doubt you were put on stag to cover the shift of a REAL sportsperson ;)
  14. I see that the bitter & twisted are getting even more bitter & twisted about anything & everything. I must point out that I only used my daughter's case as an example, & not as my own personal whinge as such. There is the danger that everyone can get sucked into a shouting match; where not much is else accomplished, other than the shouting at one another. I was never a class athlete, I did a few sports, but I was adequate at best & bloody rubbish as a rule. I did have many friends who competed at Regimental, Corps, Army, National & International level though. I never begrudged them their time off to train &/or compete; & yes, I had to put in a lot of extra work, covering for theirs & others abscences. The British Armed Forces have always been a good nursery for sportsmen & women, athletes of all kinds. Some admittedly, received more backing than others; & there always has to be a cutting off point, at which the functionality of the unit must come before the sporting ambitions of the individual. However, sporting excellence is a damned good recruiting sergeant, & anything which brings the Forces into the public eye, which isn't negatory, like the up to their necks in muck & bullets of the TV news screens each night, can only be a help. OK. The government has an easy target, slash the troop numbers, whilst giving them three or four times the work...George Bush calls & Tony obeys...& you jump through the hoops for them...but that's just my own view of course. I could go on & on; but that is diverging from my original point, which was a simple do you think this or that?
  15. probably...I even indented for expenses for the research reading material required for my record attempt, and tissues, but was sent packing....couldn't see their point of view at the time, but now that I am out, I realise that I was there to repell the Russians, and not for my own personal pleasure