they asked my advice...then ignored it!

Discussion in 'ACF' started by massivegeoff, Jul 9, 2008.

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  1. so the guys up at county asked me to recomend some new climbing kit to buy. (seeing as how i am, apparently, the new inhouse expert, being as i am the most highly qualified climbing instructor around, or somit like that.)

    anyway, i put together a couple of recos based on my, admitedly, limited experience. all fair and good, but they totally ignored what i said and went and bought completely different kit. granted the helmets they got are the same as the ones they had already bought. (i don't like them, but i'm not sue if that's because i'm just not used to them yet.) but the harnesses bought are not only the wrong size, but just don't look hardwearing enough. (apparently the reason they were bought is because they were on offer!)

    when i first saw the new kit i was a little disappointed and made my opinions known. i was told to stop "busting my gums". but i really don't see the point of asking for expert opinion if you're just going to ignore it!

    what makes it even worse, IMHO anyway, is the new county recruiting trailer has a HUGE picture of a cadet abseiling, wearing EXACTLY the kit i recomended to buy!!!!!!!! (presumably they got the picture from a previous AT trip with our cadets.)

    not sure what i can do about this, apart from just get it off of my chest!
  2. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    Get used to it. Your opinion is worth shit unless you are the bod who can sign the order off.

    After all, what does your opinion matter when some "expert" can save 3% off the bill......... :roll:
  3. Next time they ask you for advice charge them £250 Consultation fee. Then if they ignore your advice* so fcuking what? You've got £250!

    (They probably won't ignore your advice, even if it's utter, utter bollox after paying £250 for it)

    Is the kit they have bought potentialy dangerous? Its laudable that someone tries to get best VFM, but not at the expense of the safety of other peoples kids

    Does the person who told you to stop 'busting your gums' (he meant bumping, surely. The chod!) know anything about climbing? If the answer is no, or less than you, tell him to STFU and squarely blame him for buying useless kit against your advice. Play him at his own game

    Too many fcuking politicians in the ACF. They don't even notice the kids.
  4. Write a letter, commenting that you have concerns about the durability and safety of the equipment purchased, reiterating that it was against your recommendations, and removing yourself from all responsibility for any ensuing accident or injury. CC this to all in the higher echelon and the H&S bods.

    Sit back and watch the fireworks!
  5. Thats the ACF all over mate, Its how it works unfortunately, the higher up some go , the less they see of the Cadets and naval gaze instead.

    on the bus off the bus, hurry and wait etc

    The only thing we can do is do our best and cover our backs, if you want to make a diiference try to go for promotion to a position where you can influence things.
  6. Assess, advise (In writing) sit back, ass covered
  7. mmmm...

    well, the guy who told me to stop bumping my gums (that IS what he said, but i couldn't remember the exact expression as it was a new one on me) is not a more experienced climber than me. he is also "only a sergeant-major" whereas the guy who ordered the kit is th QM. so captain trumps SMI i guess. the SMI did actually point out that the harnesses were unsuitable. (they are ptzl, so are not unsafe, merely impractical for the use they will be put to.)

    th helmets are poorly fitting, but only to undersized kids, which we're not supposed to be letting on the wall anyway!

    i suppose i could wait till i'm kicked upstairs to the officers' mess in september, but then i'll still only be some guy with a white target on my chest.

    i was considering just refusing to help next time they ask for my opinion, but i thought that might just be a bit petty! i'm certainly not going to offer an opinion unless asked, or actually TOLD that i am in charge.
  8. Get over yourself Geoff.

    They asked your opinion, not your permission. Don't forget that the people who hold the purse strings are obliged to exercise due diligence, and this might be one of those (rare) occasions where they have.
  9. should all be covered div at safety advisers,
  10. have some balls cut up every rope that doesnt have a log, bin every abseil rope after fifty descents if using black marlow as the only referenc eyou have is MOD so 'must be right'- suppose you ae still using Masters and full size paddles for kayaking?

    Why not ping in an e-mail to BMC Clubs Advice, then use that to back up your stance, same with BCU local RCO etc, no CEO/QM is going to have the balls to over ride the recommendations that come form the bodies HSE will go to when they salp notices on the County
  11. Geoff, stop bumping your old are you? 15?

    Who cares?? Does it really affect you? They asked your advice, and ignored what?

    It happens all the time in the Army so why should it be any different where you are?
  12. smudge you are missingthe poitn, Geoof has a concern over the kit that has been bought by YOU to protect kids-if you don't understand moral courage then perhaps you ned to hand your bedding in-

  13. i feel i have been vindicated, in a VERY small way.

    i was asked to run a session with the mobile tower at our summer camp. it had been used by people in other companies that fortnight. (nice to see other people are actually qualified to use it...begs the question why is it ME who always is asked to run the damn thing normally!) anyway, not only had other people apparently lost/stolen the little mesh bags the harnesses come in (the QM is VERY insistant that the harnesses stay in these bags!) but one of the helmets was broken.

    basically the adjusting strap on the back was no longer functioning will adjust to fit, but is too loose to stay fit. this proves my point that the equipment may be safe, but it is cheaper and won't last as long, thus negating any savings made as you will have to buy replacements far more often than if they'd just bought what i suggested.
  14. In that case, flag it up immediately. And ensure that whoever takes the activity is required to check for such things. (On top of any standard checks).

    Advise again the sort of stuff you think should be issued, and see if they will buy it individually to replace the breaking kit. Or maybe a small quantity to supplement the other stuff. It really grinds my gears when kit can only be replaced in bulk. Nothing wrong in replacing piecemeal, especialy if good use of sales can be used.

    Re Masters, what is wrong with a master? They are awesome boats.