• ARRSE have partnered with Armadillo Merino to bring you an ARRSE exclusive, generous discount offer on their full price range.
    To keep you warm with the best of Merino gear, visit www.armadillomerino.co.uk and use the code: NEWARRSE40 at the checkout to get 40% off!
    This superb deal has been generously offered to us by Armadillo Merino and is valid until midnight on the the 28th of February.

Theresa May, Article 8 and the Judges

#1
BBC News - Theresa May to give judges new deportation guidance

Dispute between Ms May and judges over deporting foreign crims. (Mods feel free if there's already a thread but I couldn't find one)

It seems to me that, not withstanding the fact that paragraph 2 of Article 8 allows for due process of law to override the right to a family life anyway, the judges are also ignoring the fact that deporting a convicted criminal would only deprive him of a family life if his family were unable to leave the UK with him and if it was the UK government who prevented his family from doing so. Clearly we aren't doing that. If the family CHOOSE not to leave the UK with him, it's not US depriving him of a family life. The criminal is still entitled to a family life, just somewhere else.

I'll tell you what - though I might have to take it to the NAAFI - I'm even prepared to start a charity to raise money to help the unfortunate families to travel with the criminal. I'll call it the Foreign Unfortunate Criminal's Kin - Overseas Flight Fund - although we might just have to abbreviate that to an acronym on the wristbands.
 
#3
IIRC Judges previously advised Ms May to introduce Legislation or amend whats in place of which she didn't act, only now she's getting legislation implemented by the end of the year.

judges have guidelines (Government) which the majority follow and and address the facts, correct balances and not just to please public opinion. It seems just a small minority of Judges & small number of cases which the 'Lawyers' are exploiting a loophole in the legal system.

Aren't many MP's lawyers so know the system fully & also aware of the flaws?
 
#7
All judges should be required to stand for election. That will soon cull the ok yah Tarquil yuman rights brigade.
Well voting for police chiefs was such a success.

I have no doubt that any vote on judges would be hijacked by the major political parties, but as most seem to be fully paid up card carrying members of the Labour Party, it would make precious little difference.
 
#8
Most of our Judges are very well off, were born in the 40s and 50's and were part of the 'Love and Peace' brigade in the 60s and 70s. They are also invariably Socialists. Ms May will be told to 'do one' and our dear, old Judges will still allow foreign murderers to remain in the UK even if the 'family life' they seek to profess is nothing more than a pet cat.

There are 200 foreigners, convicted for participating in the 2011 Riots still waiting to have their cases heard re deportation. I think 11 have left. As the OP point out, it is NOT the Law that is at fault. It is its wilful mis-representation by some doddery old champange Socialists. Rather than asking them nicely, sacking a few of them may have the desired effect.
 
#9
Make it that all foreigners and their entire familes are deported if one of them commits any crime , no matter if serious or minor ,That way they have their right to family life , not in UK but in their country of origin no judges discretion , we have seen all too often crimonals given very small sentences and re offend soon after released
 
#10
Any legislation passed by the UK Gov has to pass the Human Rights test. There is no way at all on earth that the Govs. 'advice' will be listened to by the judiciary. Human Rights will always win. Despite any howls of protest or any poll. Pandoras box is open.

Are we in danger of scapegoating 'immigrants'? Like our local crims aren't they entitled to get on with their lives once thay have done their sentence? There can be no doubt that the media is harming race relations and it does not bode well for the future.
 
#11
Make it that all foreigners and their entire familes are deported if one of them commits any crime , no matter if serious or minor ,That way they have their right to family life , not in UK but in their country of origin no judges discretion , we have seen all too often crimonals given very small sentences and re offend soon after released
But the majority do not reoffend. So on what basis is your statement rational.
 
#12
Human Rights will always win. Despite any howls of protest or any poll. Pandoras box is open.

Are we in danger of scapegoating 'immigrants'?
I don't know what you mean by 'scapegoating immigrants'. I don't believe it was on any parties manifesto to have an open door immigration policy whereby literally millions of immigrants are allowed to live in the UK without any form of background checks being carried out with their original nation (Human Rights abuse, apparently) Neither do we have the infrastructure to cope, with schools, hospitals, roads creaking at the seams, and not to mention an absolutely massive welfare bill.

I don't want other Nations criminals living in my street, we have enough of our own.
 
#14
Any legislation passed by the UK Gov has to pass the Human Rights test. There is no way at all on earth that the Govs. 'advice' will be listened to by the judiciary. Human Rights will always win. Despite any howls of protest or any poll. Pandoras box is open.

Are we in danger of scapegoating 'immigrants'? Like our local crims aren't they entitled to get on with their lives once thay have done their sentence? There can be no doubt that the media is harming race relations and it does not bode well for the future.
HR is what IDS is focusing on, and it's being exploited within the legal Industry.

Society thinks it's bad now with Polish, lithuanian, and nearly every other nationality that can be dragged over the channel, await when Bulgaria & Romanians have unlimited legal right to be here.

You commit a crime, take the punishment served out to you by the Judges, British or otherwise.
 
#15
As with our home grown criminals, delete 'reoffend' and insert 'get caught'.

And with a huge axe reducing police numbers there will be more than ever.
So your true belief is that almost all people who get convicted of an offence are career criminals? If so you would be incorrect. There are many criminals who never get caught/convicted also - these people are far more dangerous. Jimmy Saville was one... (I would love to put in some bankers and MPs here too).
 
#16
HR is what IDS is focusing on, and it's being exploited within the legal Industry.

Society thinks it's bad now with Polish, lithuanian, and nearly every other nationality that can be dragged over the channel, await when Bulgaria & Romanians have unlimited legal right to be here.

You commit a crime, take the punishment served out to you by the Judges, British or otherwise.
I absolutely agree. And if the law permits deportation afterwards it should happen. Human Rights should be proportionate and include the Human Rights of the victim and society at large (i.e. the risk posed), unfortunately this is not the case. Like I said Pandoras Box has been opened and I cannot see a way out. We are unable to go back.
There are too many that are deported who are no (low) risk and too many high risk who aren't.
 
#17
So your true belief is that almost all people who get convicted of an offence are career criminals? If so you would be incorrect. There are many criminals who never get caught/convicted also - these people are far more dangerous. Jimmy Saville was one... (I would love to put in some bankers and MPs here too).
I'm an ex cop so my opinion is somewhat biased (admittedly) though based on experience. Most criminals commit an average of ten offences before they are caught. For some, the 'shock and awe' of arrest and conviction (should it get that far) will be enough to ensure that they will not commit an offence again. For others, the police, judiciary and prison system are looked upon as nothing more than an occupational hazard. Unfortunately, this perception is encouraged by a judicial system that refuses to jail offenders who have clocked up, in some cases, as many as 300 offences. Burglary, vehicle theft and drug supply are usually the hallmark of a hardened criminal, so, yes there are quite a few 'career criminals' out there.

As for the remainder of your post as regards Saville, Bankers and MPs I couldn't agree more!
 
#18
I'm an ex cop so my opinion is somewhat biased (admittedly) though based on experience. Most criminals commit an average of ten offences before they are caught. For some, the 'shock and awe' of arrest and conviction (should it get that far) will be enough to ensure that they will not commit an offence again. For others, the police, judiciary and prison system are looked upon as nothing more than an occupational hazard. Unfortunately, this perception is encouraged by a judicial system that refuses to jail offenders who have clocked up, in some cases, as many as 300 offences. Burglary, vehicle theft and drug supply are usually the hallmark of a hardened criminal, so, yes there are quite a few 'career criminals' out there.

As for the remainder of your post as regards Saville, Bankers and MPs I couldn't agree more!
It is not bias but your experience which I accept. The career criminals are still not the majority though (although they probably commit the most crime, like the old statistic of 80% of crime committed by 20% of the perps).
 

Latest Threads