Theresa May about to Resign?

Even I wasn't expecting the size of her defeat. I thought my 160 was a little optimistic. But now Corbyn has nowhere to go, if labour had a decent electable leader they would have been streets ahead, the fact that they're bouncing around neck and neck says all you need to know about that ridiculous specimen.
How can they not have the figures to tramp all over this current zombie government. It's Corbyn nothing else.
You are conflating two issues old fruit... no argument with your view of Corbyn as the toxic leader of an toxic opposition party at all.

The point I am making is that Theresa May has not dragged him out of his bolt hole... her historic and enormously humiliating defeat has forced his hand in calling for a VoNC as the leader of the opposition rather than as Jeremy Corbyn desperate for a general election. There is a vast difference between those two things.
 
Barnier on the tellybox sayng the EU regrets the decision to vote down the deal, and that the UK should reconsider its red lines.

Seems he wants us to surrender even more next time, and that the EU is unhappy they didn't get the surrender deal through....
Barnier should be told where to go in no uncertain terms.

France may be a vassel state to Greater Germany, but the UK will hopefully never be so.
 
Corbyn will lose.

May may well have concocted a deal that was doomed, however a feeling is that this may well make way for a deal that is better for us in that it has sent a very pointed signal to the EU, and to May, that a continuing connection that allows Brussels to dictate in any way to the UK is unacceptable.

She lost because her deal allowed Brussels too much control.

The majority still want OUT!!! of the EU, despite what the remainders may wish for...and want nothing to do with a Labour government under Corbyn.

May may be many things, but in no way is she as bad as Corbyn would be.
 
The proposed-and now defeated government deal would have conferred the status of Vichy France on the United Kingdom.
A fact which all mainstream media either skate over or fail to mention is that all 27 members would have to unanimously agree to release us from the transition period. Bearing in mind that Macron has already said that unless France got a deal for them to fish our waters he wouldn't sign up to that release
.
 
Too many dummies needing to be spat out unfortunately... a couple of abstentions by politically suicidal tory backbenchers perhaps.

Assuming that the vote is cleanly split Conservative and DUP vs the rest...

Total voting seats = 649 (excludes Mr Speaker). The vote would look like...

327 for the government (317 seats plus 10 DUP)​
315 against the government (322 seats minus 7 Sinn Fein)​
There would need to be 13 conservative abstentions or 7 conservative votes against the government for the VoNC to succeed. As a mix of the two, the seven votes needed would be reduced by one for every two abstentions, e.g. 2 abstentions and 6 votes, 4 abstentions, 5 vote etc.

Whichever way you cut it, there is a greater likelihood of the pope flogging cut price johnnies from a stall on St Peters Square than there is of today's VoNC succeeding.

Nota Bene: if the numbers are wrong, I got them from Dianne Abbot.
It may not be as many as 315 - there are seven independent MPs & one convicted perverter of the course of justice recently removed from Labour, of whom six are ex-Labour and at least two of whom - knowing that they're not going to be selected for the next election - may well raise two fingers at JC and abstain. John Woodcock is unlikely to vote for something which might allow Corbyn into power, thus leading to work on SSBNs stopping fairly promptly; Frank Field is more in tune with PMTM on things in general than with JC.

I suspect that Lady Hermon may not support Corbyn on this; although she tended to support Labour in pre-Corbyn days, she's on record as having said that she will never support Labour while Corbyn is leader.

Ivan Lewis will probably be having conflicted views - he despises Corbyn (the feeling is mutual), regards him as someone who at best tolerates anti-semetism and is of the view that his suspension from the party over sexual harassment allegations was in fact designed to get him out of the way for a Corbynite replacement. While he has no love for PMTM and the Tories, I wouldn't be 100% sure of his support were I a Labour whip.

So it could easily be 327 in favour of the government with 312 against thanks to independents abstaining. If Tulip Siddiqui has to go for her C-section, I rather think that her views about pairing expressed yesterday will count against her, and that'll be another vote JC doesn't have.

I'd respectfully suggest that Corbyn is partly going for a VoNC because he really, really wants to be PM - he could have simply stood up and said that he recognised that the DUP will support PMTM, rendering a VoNC pointless at this moment in time, but giving notice that he will be ready to launch one when he believes that there's a reasonable chance of success and so as not to get in the way of debates on Brexit and normal Commons business 'which also matters to the people of this country' [or similar patronising virtue-signalling language] thus managing to appear a bit more statesmanlike.
 
It may not be as many as 315 -
Indeed you are correct sir. My simplistic numbers were merely to illustrate the infinitesimally small chance of today's VoNC succeeding against the government.
 
he could have simply stood up and said that he recognised that the DUP will support PMTM, rendering a VoNC pointless at this moment in time, but giving notice that he will be ready to launch one when he believes that there's a reasonable chance of success
He has absolutely nothing to lose on this one... tomorrow, his side of the house will be in exactly the same position it was in a day ago.

The government on the other hand - a win by the narrowest of mathematically possible margins is really not going to cover it and its beleaguered leader in glory.

Chipping away at the government's authority to govern is better for JC than doing nothing at all.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
One thing people have been saying about May is that she is resilient-as though it's a compliment. Resilience is not a virtue in a vacuum. It only becomes a virtue when paired with other virtuous traits.

A certain Herr A. Hitler was remarkably resilient in the early 40s and all it brought was his nation being bombed into a moonscape and then invasion by the rapiest army of modern times.
 
Her job is to stay in place and be beaten until the next general election.

She can then do what she likes.


Like it or not the Conservative Party is historically the greatest election winning machine this country has seen. They've gone a bit ideological of late, which has harmed their electoral results.

But the problem is they had someone who could have successfully harnessed things in Cameron (like him or not). He fell to the epic long Tory Civil war over the EU. So has she.

I'd suggest the men in grey suits have taken her to one side and told her that her duty is to fling herself onto the pyre of the EU Bonfire to put it out for all time in the party.

A peerage and her reward in the House of Lords for this couple of years of having the crap kicked out of her then await.

She's rubbish. But at least she isn't a terrorist supporting, probably traitorous, incompentent anti-Semite.

And that's me saying that, my fondess for Mrs May is well documented.
My bold.. my disagree is for that, she should never have become PM knowing her remainer views, she was useless as Home Secretary. We the UK needed a strong person at the helm, all we have had in the last 2 PM's are gutless creatures who were only in it for themselves, not the good of the country. What we needed was a thatcher who WOULD tell the EU to do one as she did here, ...


She really does tell it as it is!
 
One thing people have been saying about May is that she is resilient-as though it's a compliment. Resilience is not a virtue in a vacuum. It only becomes a virtue when paired with other virtuous traits.
I seem to recall a un-named Tory bank bencher quoted before Christmas as saying of her "survival is not a strategy".

Standing there and getting punched and not going down is one thing.

What it is not, is winning the fight.

I suppose I would say this, but after her time as Home Secretary she is simply unused to people who tell her to change her mind. She could tell the police what to do. She tried to tell the judiciary what to do (she got found in contempt of court).

Her government has been found in contempt of Parliament. She just lost by the largest margin ever, apparently. And it appears from the news I caught today, she's sent out to the House to tell people to sit down and really think about what they are doing.

She'll win tonight on the grounds that the turkeys don't vote for christmas, and an election would be catastrophic for public confidence in the institution of governmnent.

I would also fear an expression of frustration leading to a government formed under Corbyn.

He is, frankly in my opinion, untrustworthy and unfit for the office he seeks.

@ex_colonial I really do wonder when we can move on from a Prime Minister who hasn't been in office since 1990. If we can't generate new leadership, regardsless of what anyone thinks of Margaret Thatcher, we really are a bit screwed.
 
The leadership on the continent is also getting a kicking by their respective electorates. Brussels leadership is unelected can’t get a kicking... however are getting massively unpopular.

I would venture as bad as things looks the UK still seems to be doing better than most. This possibly due to the unpleasant, however many felt were necessary, austerity measures,that were put in place by the present government.

The EU has continued to piss money away, but now, facing the loss of their major cash cow, will be forced to start looking at some of their wilder excesses, Greece just to name one, their immigration /free movement policies for another, or the idea of allowing Turkey to join with over 70 million Muslims

We can and will do better once we get shot of the EU, but not under Labour/Corbyn government which would be an unmitigated disaster.

May’s ideas of only partially leaving has rightly received the reception it got. A much better deal from Brussels or clean break.
 
I seem to recall a un-named Tory bank bencher quoted before Christmas as saying of her "survival is not a strategy".

Standing there and getting punched and not going down is one thing.

What it is not, is winning the fight.

I suppose I would say this, but after her time as Home Secretary she is simply unused to people who tell her to change her mind. She could tell the police what to do. She tried to tell the judiciary what to do (she got found in contempt of court).

Her government has been found in contempt of Parliament. She just lost by the largest margin ever, apparently. And it appears from the news I caught today, she's sent out to the House to tell people to sit down and really think about what they are doing.

She'll win tonight on the grounds that the turkeys don't vote for christmas, and an election would be catastrophic for public confidence in the institution of governmnent.

I would also fear an expression of frustration leading to a government formed under Corbyn.

He is, frankly in my opinion, untrustworthy and unfit for the office he seeks.

@ex_colonial I really do wonder when we can move on from a Prime Minister who hasn't been in office since 1990. If we can't generate new leadership, regardsless of what anyone thinks of Margaret Thatcher, we really are a bit screwed.
My bold, Sadly looking at the vast majority of those MP's in the house today, I agree with you. There would appear to be one, who if he could be persuaded to stand, could make a good PM, Rees-Mogg,
Jacob Rees-Mogg DESTROYS Theresa May after crushing Brexit defeat - 'Respect the LAW!'
snip Jacob Rees-Mogg pointed out that a no-deal Brexit “cannot challenge the law” passed by Parliament, of leaving without a deal if a no deal was agreed. And not, if I may say so, crashing out which is a politically prejudicial term.”
 
My bold.. my disagree is for that, she should never have become PM knowing her remainer views, she was useless as Home Secretary. We the UK needed a strong person at the helm, all we have had in the last 2 PM's are gutless creatures who were only in it for themselves, not the good of the country. What we needed was a thatcher who WOULD tell the EU to do one as she did here, ...


She really does tell it as it is!
Neither of whom are conservatives in the sense of their political beliefs. They're left leaning liberals at best.
 

Pob02

LE
Book Reviewer
My bold, Sadly looking at the vast majority of those MP's in the house today, I agree with you. There would appear to be one, who if he could be persuaded to stand, could make a good PM, Rees-Mogg,
Jacob Rees-Mogg DESTROYS Theresa May after crushing Brexit defeat - 'Respect the LAW!'
snip Jacob Rees-Mogg pointed out that a no-deal Brexit “cannot challenge the law” passed by Parliament, of leaving without a deal if a no deal was agreed. And not, if I may say so, crashing out which is a politically prejudicial term.”
The disagree is for Ree-Mogg as a viable PM . . .the guy is so out of touch with the modern world he makes people who wear corduroy as a fashion-statement look edgy.

Rees-Mogg approval of babbling nonsense about what WTO rules would mean

Rees Mogg out of touch about marraige and abortion

Rees-Mogg out of touch about food banks

Rees-Mogg out of touch banging his gums about cheap footwear

Rees-Mogg not understanding the difference between harrassment and bad manners
 
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thus managing to appear a bit more statesmanlike.
There is the crux of the matter. Our Jack Russell is more statesmanlike than Corbyn will ever be. His petulance and on occasions, sheer nastiness has been on display over the past few weeks, as he sensed May’s vulnerability and the mask eventually slipped.
John McDonnell was spouting his usual platitudes this morning and complaining that the PM has not once picked up the phone and consulted with Jeremy or his front bench over this matter of “National importance”.
Well, I’m no fan of Theresa May or her so-called deal and she really has boxed herself into a corner, but I reckon she took one look across at the opposition front bench and very quickly assessed there would be no cross party support coming from that direction.
God help us all if that shower ever gets into Government. Admittedly, the present lot are a shower, but it could be far worse.
Hopefully Corbyn (with his puppet masters) is firmly put back in his box this evening.
 
The disagree is for Ree-Mogg as a viable PM . . .the guy is so out of touch with the modern world he makes people who wear corduroy as a fashion-statement look edgy.

For god's sake, you think the deluded, would be Stalin who hates Jews is any more in touch with reality . At least Rees-Mogg is prepared to debate/defend his stances and doesn't let his religion or personal opinion dictate his actions!
 

Pob02

LE
Book Reviewer
For god's sake, you think the deluded, would be Stalin who hates Jews is any more in touch with reality . At least Rees-Mogg is prepared to debate/defend his stances and doesn't let his religion or personal opinion dictate his actions!
When did I suggest that Corbyn is a viable PM (I presume that is who you refer to. . . go on I dare you to find it. You will not.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
To avoid any doubt I assume you mean the Russians?
Why yes I do in fact mean those scamp's from Russia. And it seems nothing much has changed in the 75 years since other than the reduced numbers of away fixtures limiting the opportunities. After all one of the resident Russian mong's was bragging about coercing a woman into being a ****-toy by use of a days rations.
 

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