THEATRE FLEET SUPPORT UNITS - CAN THEY EVER WORK?

#2
The reason they deliver 'crap, in crap condition' is because they can't get the spares, can't get the manpower and spend too long preparing to go on operations.

And aside from that, they are too busy preparing for the next round of ECI, LSI, H&SI, environmental audit, CO's walkround and General's visit.

That is what all that is about :roll:
 
#7
Nige said:
The reason they deliver 'crap, in crap condition' is because they can't get the spares, can't get the manpower and spend too long preparing to go on operations.

And aside from that, they are too busy preparing for the next round of ECI, LSI, H&SI, environmental audit, CO's walkround and General's visit.

That is what all that is about :roll:
Spot on Nige!
 
#8
Nice to see I wasn't the only one wondering what the helll the title meant..............................
 
#9
I Still go back to my original question.

Whats a theatre fleet support unit?? Are they the same as Theatre Troops ES Coy's???
 
#10
Thetare Fleet Support Units, they are a form of long term storage of key equipments, the vehs are put in storage with all mods complete and left for up to 5 years in Controlled Humidity Environments. It all hangs on how well prepped they are on recipt. I understand the unit probs especially the overstretch, what is needed is specialist REME Dets that can put the fvehs into storage properly, RLC don't have the tech ability.
 
#11
TFSU is not long term storage... that implies the originating unit will receive it's original eqpts back.

These are the whole fleet 'depots', centrally (mis)managing our kit. Fleet management keeps kit from the hands of the user destroying ownership, pride and familiarity/confidence, whilst ensuring that no-one gives an arrse about the kit that could one day save their life. As for prep... they should all be submitted to a set standard, and later be issued to others at that same standard... a major task considering the lack of manpower in tfsu. My experience of this concept so far has not filled me with confidence... and I can't wait to do it all again this spring!!
 
#13
WFM in whatever guise it appears will not work unless all units can be trusted 100% to submit fully fit equipment into storage. My experience tells me that that will not be the case.
Having been bitten by the WFM thing in the past my main concern is this - Units who are busy and undermanned(which lets face it means every unit in the army at the moment) will not see making equipment fully fit to be put into storage as a high priority. However the unit then expects equipment from that storage to materialise fully fit when they want equipment out of the pool. DON'T WORK GUV.

The only real way around this is to have centralised teams set up to inspect equipment in loosing units to a set standard. That team would then agree the tasks to be completed before equipment was submitted for storage. At arrival at storage site the equipment is again inspected by the centralised team and if up to the standard required the equipment is stored. If not to the required standard the equiment is rejected back to the originating unit. When equipment is then to be issued another inspection team confirm the equipment state, the equipment is then serviced before delivery to a unit.

As i said before i have already been bitten by this. Received vehicles form another Cav unit that were in SH1T state, having been promised that they were in top order. Who's to blame???? Hard one to pin down. The loosing unit were very busy, were short of manpower and were only given short notice of the transfer. Having said that they should never have let their own equipment get into the sh1t state it was in.

Until these support units are fully manned and all units own up to bad practice, cowboy tactics things will never change.
 
#14
The theory of the venture is sound. The spams do it with great sucess (as much as it pains me to say it), but then they have money. Theya have as 'small' fleet of everything kicking around to train with and then they have enough for their Div's to depoly with in storage. Prior to any of it goining in to CHE it is rejuvinated, so that when who ever get its (for anger ususally) it is like new and good to go. Now I knwo there approach to maintenace is different than ours but the TFSU bit works for them.

Now, when the WAGI was first considered 'they' were going to create a complete wksp at each of the TFSU sites and all eqpt going there would be rolled through it bringing it up to the reqd standard. But and here is where I think it went wrong, there aren't enoughblokes to do it. So next idea, no problem a few FTRS to run it and a load of ex blokes and civies could do the work, no money to pay them.

And so here we are, the few that are posted there are frustrated at the state of the eqpt in and out, unit are fredders with spending time arranging and shipping kit in and out, do they keep the CES, dont they, trying to get and answer from Div who don't know cos Land havn't told them (thats lack of bullocks) and Nige is right there are only 3 blokes on the shop floor none in the Ftr sect and 24 hours in the day.

So in answer to the question I think its a gang flop. For it to work money or blokes, ahh well never mind just crack on.
 
#15
unclebink said:
Fleet management keeps kit from the hands of the user destroying ownership, pride and familiarity/confidence, whilst ensuring that no-one gives an arrse about the kit that could one day save their life.
Well said that man! What's the point of returning fit kit into the hands of the user if they've forgotten how to use it / service it / what it can do?

This is a worrying trend, even now, the only people who regularly drive vehicles in my unit are the (rather small) MT section; what happens when the sh1t hits the fan? Blokes who got their driver training at Leconfield 5 years ago (or more) and never driven since jump into TCVs!

Vehicle ownership is the key to keeping the troops familiar with the kit, and the kit in good order.

I know financially its a loser, but it's the choice between a fighting force that works and a chocolate fireguard.
 
#16
counterstrike said:
unclebink said:
Fleet management keeps kit from the hands of the user destroying ownership, pride and familiarity/confidence, whilst ensuring that no-one gives an arrse about the kit that could one day save their life.
Well said that man! What's the point of returning fit kit into the hands of the user if they've forgotten how to use it / service it / what it can do?

This is a worrying trend, even now, the only people who regularly drive vehicles in my unit are the (rather small) MT section; what happens when the sh1t hits the fan? Blokes who got their driver training at Leconfield 5 years ago (or more) and never driven since jump into TCVs!

Vehicle ownership is the key to keeping the troops familiar with the kit, and the kit in good order.

I know financially its a loser, but it's the choice between a fighting force that works and a chocolate fireguard.
That is spot on. If we dont keep the kit we dont keep it maintained, nor are we familiar with it. Reminds me of the adage:

"Fastest car on the road - a rented car!!""
 
#18
Putting the prep of the kit to one side for a mo, its also vital that the kit is stored correctly and looked after whilst in there. Having left 18 MLRS in there for 9 months - in VERY good condition when they went in I might add! - and then seeing the woefull state they came out in as a result of degredation purely from sitting still in a temperature/humidity controled environment, leaves me wondering as to how effective the current storage/maintenance regime is.............

I wont even get onto the fact that my guys need trucks to fix in order to stand a chance of staying, as the latest b*llsh1t buzz-word puts it, 'competent'...............
 
#19
Guys i fully understand the priciples behind WFM.
The spams make it work because some bright spark makes sure that the whole vehicle crew are free from all other tasks, and i mean all other tasks for 2 weeks while the vehicle is in the Wksp for repair. That then allows the crew and fitters to rip the vehicle to bits down to replacing missing spring washers. They don't even go on parades or do duties. Thats why it works for them!! I know this because some good friends of mind are crew chiefs(the same as ASM's) in their army.

What do we do? We make the crew do duties,PT let half the crew bugger off on other things and generally fu*k them about when they should be fixing the vehicle.

Until we adopt the culture of leaving crews to crack on and get things done the problem will not go away. Then of course we need to really look at how we then store the kit to make sure it does not become degraded through lack of use. We came up with some good ideas in Fally a few years ago when we had to put some CR2 in light pres due to commitments. A regime was put in place that actually worked. It was put forward as a way of doing business, but strangely enough it was rejected because some boffin never came up with it. But then again what would the guys on the shop floor know about keeping fit kit in the hands of the user.
 
#20
The other problem is that ES in Land cannot define the AESP standrds for vehicles going into Storage, consequuently the system is based on "best practice". difficulty is that if they define a standard it may be too expensive to achieve and they haven't got the A veh Mechs to do the work anyway!!
 

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