The yanks are kidding right?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Ord_Sgt, Sep 15, 2004.

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  1. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    From the BBC. Full story here
    The yanks are kidding right? I mean they can hardly whine that the Russians are doing something non democratic when they have invaded two independent nations and they have people locked up in Gitmo with no recourse to the law.

    Hello pot this is kettle send colour check over. :roll:
  2. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    Sorry, maybe you missed the underlying story, Putin is proposing to replace MP's with his party officials, this isn't some kind of joke, this is big shite. This is even worse than stealing all the shares of a major oil company and giving them to your KGB mates.

    There is ONLY ONE EXAMPLE of a political figure replacing piece by piece an electoral system and free press - it happened in the 1930's in Germany.

    If Churchill was alive today he would be screaming from the gin cabinet, rebuild the armed forces, recruit the men, attack immediately. There is almost no comparable situation to what Putin is doing and the entire West is praying that he doesn't divert all his oil dollars into tanks and drive westwards. WW3 could still happen, thanks to this thief.
  3. Ord,
    1) AfgahaniLand was a UN sanctioned "invasion"
    2) Iraq was in violation of a UN sanctioned "cease fire". As a UN member the US saw fit to impose that cease fire agreement, since the UN decided it did not have the spine to do so 8O
    3) far less people locked up in Gitmo, then are being slaughtered in the Sudan...with which the UN does not want to deal with 8O
    4) and what Mr Happy said. :D
  4. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Fair enough.
    I thought it was because "he definately has WMD and can launch in 45 minutes". Silly me :wink: Dress it up however you like it was because saddam tried to kill dubyas daddy and the family was still pissed at him.
    It is still not right. Never ever in a democracy.
    OK but WW3, come on CIS coudn't fight it's way out of a paper bag in the foreseable future.

    Hope that didn't come across as too much of an anti US rant ctauch? :)
  5. That's the kind of attitude that leads to statements like "I have in my hand a piece of paper...".

  6. The state of the Russian forces at present is laughable but with the proposals that Putin wants to implement........well we may be looking at another Stalin......albeit dressed as a Democracy. If this injection of cash occurs then we may see a resurected Russian Army which may rival what they had under the Communist regime.

    Lets hope it doesn't get to that :?
  7. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    I posted this elsewhere but here it is again... I was in Russia a few weeks ago and saw lots of Russians training and despite everything we are told they looked motivated and efficient and their AFVs were def. not VOR. They were all well fed and clothed and certainly not unlike anything I would see on a visit to Aldershot. And they still all have the AK...

    Sure their C&C seems poor but I suspect they could roll through most of Central Europe in a week to save it from Enron or some such should Putin choose to.

    The Bear is not dead. And it has a wonderful training area in Chechnya like we had in Ulster.
  8. It seems to me not impossible that - under the right conditions - Russia could soon become as frightening a prospect as the old Soviet Union. If you combine Putin's undeniable fascist authoritarian nastiness with the increased efficiency of a liberalised and profit-motivated economy, and the Russian peoples' undoubted preference for aggressive and nationalist governments, it makes a fairly frothy cocktail. There is no need for them to waste money any more fighting an ideological struggle with the US and the west, so why not invest that 'peace dividend' in re-establishing their hegemony in eastern Europe and Central Asia.

    Meanwhile, we slash defence spending.
  9. How likely are China and Russia to become diplomatically close or on good terms with each-other?

    The two allied would be a bit of a worry.

    We still need our armed forces, that much is for sure. Why cut it?

  10. So the Russians are starving, penniless and their military is gutted?
    Bit like the German Army back in the late twenties then?
  11. BB and chickenpunk make some astute observations:

    Facism is simply socialism with a mix of capitalism but no democracy, i know that sounds weird, but it was and is a weird philosophy. Ignore the anti-Jewish thing (no i am not belittling it), as that was simply good ole german prejudice dressed up. There was little of that in Italy and Spain.

    Facism is based upon the ideal of a centralise economy that is not hampered by nicities of social democracy - therefore, companies are allowed to make huge profits, as long as it is shared with the central government who then implements massive infrastructure projects. The socialist concept of equality for all is replaced with one of levels of society and everyone knowing there place. Sound familiar!!

    Facism also means ultra nationalism and loathing of all things foreign (unless there are other facist), little or no democracy and a government who knows better than the public, what is good for it. Sounding even more familiar!!!!

    Russia looks to be heading for this quite quickly. Oh, interesting point, after the first few years of the "Project" the German embassy was describing B*Liar's Third Way as reminiscent of Hitler's early government. 8O
  12. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    CIG, the China question is certainly an interesting point, on the one hand it has much in common with Russia in that it wants wealth etc, on the other it would dearly like to get its hands on the oil, gold, diamonds in Siberia so much so that it might have yet another bargy with Russia (I think the last tit for tat involved a couple of divisions crossing the border in the 60's). Tom Clancy war-gamed it fairly well in The Bear and the Dragon.
  13. I've always thought that Tony Blair is the closest thing to a Fascist leader that this country has produced. Take into account the following factors:

    • 1. His pronounced and obvious distaste for the parliamentary process (exemplified by the New Labour habit of announcing policy initiatives in the press rather than Parliament).

      2. His absolute disinclination to protect the rights of minorities (eg, the hunting ban).

      3. Contempt for the truth in furtherance of his own agenda (many, many examples both personally and politically but, for example, the 'dodgy dossier' and WMD in Iraq).

      4. Willingness to change the Constitution for partisan political advantage (eg, expulsion of hereditary peers from House of Lords without a general reform of the chamber; attempt to abolish the judicial functions of the House of Lords with no clear alternative; devolution).

      5. Cronyism (see point 4 above, but also his elevation of personal friends to the peerage and then ministerial rank or function, eg, 'Lord' Falconer, 'Baroness' Scotland, 'Lord' Levy etc)

      6. Politicisation of the Civil Service (eg, massive expansion of the numbers and influence of 'Special Advisors'; appointment of political hacks to the Government Information Service - Alistair Campbell et al)

    The list could go on and on, but what we have experienced since New Labour came to power has been a 'Gleichschaltung' similar to that of the Nazis in Germany after 1933. Unfortunately, all of this has been aided by the pathetic specimens who constitute the opposition: neither the Tories nor the Lib Dems could punch their way out of a paper bag, whilst most of the minor parties are essentially silly. All very depressing really. :(
  14. I find this all fascinating...everybody has made some well informed statements...Do we REALLY think that Britain could turn into Nazi Germany....well if the BNP continue to gain support and the current attitude towards race, assylum seekers etc....then maybe we could well be on our way....Bring back the Empire and we will have no more problems......all the little countries that were in the empire which we aquired with the cunning use of a flag wanted their independance and now they want our benifits....funny turn around that ....why are we so weak...or are we strong!!! :?
  15. Sounds great...where do I sign?... :)