The Wommando Course

#1
Having just watched Capt Tattersal's appearence on This Morning, I feel compelled to find out what the general feeling within the Army is on the subject of her passing the All Arms Commando Course.

While I take my hat off to her having passed what is an undeniably hard course, I now find staggering that she is making a mockery of herself, women in the Army and the All Arms Course by having makovers on daytime TV.  When will all the men that have passed the course be making such appearences?

What is more she has no role in 3 Cdo Bde as an ETS officer, male ETS officers have asked to do the course and have been denied the opportunity.  Her passing of the course will not benefit the training of the platoon she currently leads.

Lastly, who has been looking after the welfare and training of her platoon at the AFC while she has been away on her attempts at passing the course.

Let the deluge of banter commence.
 
#2
First, I take my hat off to her for completing the course.

I have not seen the makeover business because the "delights" of daytime TV are denied  me.  I wonder if she is being used by our political masters as another weapon in their PC campaign to have "equality" in the Armed Forces in the face of logic.  I seem to recall somewhere a prohibition on us appearing ad hoc on TV.  I assume she must have been granted permission along the way by some PR wallah.
 
#3
I couldn't agree more with you guys - as soon as I saw it I cringed and thought of what a bad PR move it was.  Do you think that it was approved/organised for her by someone hoping that it would put her in a negative light?

PS I have taped it for him indoors to see because I couldn't believe she was doing it.
 
#4
Filthy rumours abound in the Commando community that a few 'refusal to soldier' incidents were brushed over.  After three attempts and attendance at RMAS, I'd have hoped the last hurdle, that devilishly difficult six foot wall wouldn't have been an issue.
 
#6
I think it is great - and yes, some guys have been knocked out of the way for her to attend.

The good thing that it will shut up some of the male biggots that we have in our army.  She will be used as a reference by many women soldiers as a role model and I think we should just focus on the positive, that a woman can pass a Commando course.

She's my hero and I would follow her in her webbing anywhere...!
 
#7
I say this as no joke, if I had a geen beret I would wrap it up in a parcel, write the name and address of the DG RM Cdo and post it back to him in disgust.

I have absolutely no dramas with a woman with the physical stamina to pass the course and who wishes to do so to achieve a personal best, but the story of this individual makes me cringe. It is political correctness gone mad to waste the money putting her through the course for no apparent purpose. The fact that other ETS have been denied access to the course and she wasn't is pitiful in the extreme, and the question should be asked why she was allowed a slot when others weren't.

And you ask me why I despise this government and all it stands for and all it does? It seeks not to change by evolution but to take, like a filthy, spoilt child, to take each and every working toy in the nursery and smash it simply because it can.
 
#8
Is she a looker?
 
#9
I have met her a few times when she was posted to Warminster.  She is no raving feminist but just a highly motivated and physically fit woman who enjoys a challenge - just like most people who attempt the commando course - except they are blokes!

She has done the Armed Forces a great favour because she has had the balls (no joke intended) to confirm what most people are afraid to say.  That is that men and women are physically different and women are generally not suited to the highly demanding physical requirements of roles such as marines and infantry.  The best of the best will get through but the run of the mill candidate hasn't a hope.  

She was given a gender free chance, she took it and suceeded and I take my hat off to her.

The time for us to start chimfing is when women are given a gender fair chance because you won't find Osma, Saddam or in the old days Martin or Gerry providing gender fair attacks to ensure there is a level playing field for the sexes.

Keep your powder dry until Cherie tells Tone that time time is ripe for that to happen.
 
#10
In all fairness she would most likely beat me hands (and knees) down in a flat out race over any distance, with or without a bergen. Without a doubt she would shame my level of fitness. HOWEVER, my issue is that she was given a chance denied to other men on the basis of her genitalia and gender. That is what I believe is wrong. Add to that she was given more than a fair crack of the whip and you see my point.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#11
Isnt it up to the DS whether you were recommended for another shot at the course when you were rtu'ed/binned. I know at least two blokes who took a couple of shots at passing the bootie course...

As to the 'lacking the commando spirit' stuff, thats just rumour - it might be true and then again it might not be. Best avoided as it sounds like crying over spilt milk. If  it was such a problem she wouldnt have passed. I'm sure the staff at the CTC are not that keen on women passing the course , & wouldnt let anyone away with anything.

It also takes the discussion of individuals on ARRSE too far. I know that I passed courses that at some point during which I was on my chinstrap and didnt display the required 'spirit'.

In terms of the indivdual - she was given a shot at a tough course and took it. Good luck to her.

But there is a serious point here that a female applicant was allowed to attend a course for which there are no slots for her trade, and for which other candidates (male) in the same trade were turned down. That isnt equality - in fact it does a dis-service to equality as all the male ETS applicants get pissed off.

The TV thing was an embarrasment and some idiot at Media Ops at HQ Land should get a huge kick ***********; what were they thinking? (...of course, if it had been on Commado tottie  swimsuits or underwear, a serious topic that has yet to be addressed, then it would have been ok).
 

CGS

War Hero
Moderator
#12
When you eventually do get told to do something it is likely to involve getting shot for America, whilst we just have to bore for Britain.
Don't you mean getting shot AT by America?
 
#13
I'm with Geoff Whom on this one: I don't believe that all these ETS blokes have been prevented from doing the Commando course - where does this 'fact' come from Woopert?  Are you sure it isn't really a case of some ETS blokes who would have liked to have done the course...but didn't actually get around to applying or training for it?  Tattershall did and good for her.
From my knowledge of the ETS, they would have willingly supported any bloke who was keen to get badged as this helps them to recruit more male candidates (just look at the number of male, badged ETS officers who have been sent to be Pl Comds at RMAS...not reflective of the make up of the branch I would imagine).  Perhaps all those males who have been denied a place on the Commando course BECAUSE of Tattershall could write of their experiences here?
Lets not undermine the moment for her - the girl done good.
 
#14
The girl did indeed do good, however Woopert's point is justified, the issue isn't whether there are or aren't lots of male ETS officers refused attendence.

The point is attendance on the course is determined by the vacancy's that there are within 3 Commando Brigade and the individuals 'trade' or background/experience.

There are 3 slots for Army officers on the Brigade staff RLC or REME (logistics experience required)

The point is this... if she does go to 3 Cdo Brigade it will be in a slot that she is not qualified for or one that is made up for her. If the rules can be bent for some then we should do the same for all soldiers wanting to pass the course.
 
#15
That all seems very logical but then again I hold the same view.

If I remember rightly the first female EOD officer (RE) was at a time when the only women in the Engineers were in the postal and courier branch.

Why did she get one of the really choice posts? Well I suspect for the same reason as the first female Commando.... lots of publicity as she did seem to turn up on a great many TV programmes at the time.

I don't know if it's right or not.... that's way above my pay scale.
 
#16
I think its bollocks that she should be allowed to go on the course when there is no slot for her in a cdo regt. Its not as if she is doing the course now to fill a space on her next posting either it is simply a PR stunt.

That aside she must have been particularly fit and determined in order conduct the course in the first place and if she didn’t pass the course properly nobody would have though any the less of her.
I’m sure some rules were bent for her to pass, more than just the “no job available” rule, commando spirit, refusal to soldiers, weight on runs, etc these rumours have all surfaced and there is no smoke without fire. I believe the PC fairies needed a new icon. These rumours will always follow her around now because why was she doing the course. They should have invented a job for her first then sent her on the course.

I wanted to have a shot a while back and offered to use all my post tour and annual leave in order to not disrupt my unit. I hoped that doing the course at the time would mean I would be able to be employed in a commando unit later in my career. The following posting really. I am now older and have recently sustained a number of sporting and motorbike injuries (damaged knee and ankle ligaments, broken ankle, broken hip etc), which would prevent me completing the course now and probably prevent me from being a useful member of any commando-trained unit. Why does it seem that the rules are bent to help female soldiers/officers career’s progress and  to prevent the same for men. We are not a civilian organisation if things go wrong people can die, so lets not get too wrapped up in this equality crap. I wish those at the top would just face it boys and girls are different.
 
#17
I have heard the following rumours, can anyone at CTC or participants of the same course confirm any of them?

1.  Three attempts are unheard of?
2.  A major navigational unpleasantness took place?
3.  The standards accepted for the tests were for soldiers and not officer's?
4.  The course passed several days before Capt Tattersall, is that not a fail?
5.  There were nails put into the 6 foot wall to be used to gain purchase?

I look forward to a reply from someone who can confirm or deny such rumours.
 
#18
I thought that we had put this embarassing knee-jerk reflex - trying to put anybody that achieves anything down - behind us.

If any of the rumours are true then it is the chain's fault.

If Pip T has had to allow herself to be manipulated to get what she wants, then she has played a good game.

My experience of the marines is that they are a damn sight more professional and sorted integrity wise than us Army lot. Our chain would crumple the second that any half-baked politico said so.
 
#20
I am also of the opinion that Capt T's achievements are being undermined and that this has shown the inherent bigotry in the BA.  Why must people look for a duty rumour or attempt to start a smear campaign?

Furthermore I have yet to see an ETS officer who could pass the AACC without the serious graft which evidently she put in.

My mate who was on course with her said she was as fit as a butcher's and didn't seem to have any exceptions made for her.

Further more let us not overlook the hugely positive effects of female targeted PR.  Having just got back from a commissioning ball comprised of post guns and roses chicks I have noticed a marked improvement from the usual Trogs; they should be in messes and troop lines within 4 months, wahoo!
 
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