"The Woman from NRW, she say No"

ugly

LE
Moderator
#21
Let's turn it around, why should some persons class prejudices prevent others from pursuing legal sports and at the same time put private money into public coffers?
That's what is happening here
 
#22
Let's turn it around, why should some persons class prejudices prevent others from pursuing legal sports and at the same time put private money into public coffers?
That's what is happening here
You mean the Welsh decision? Or peoples dislike of Trophy (non food) hunting?
 
#23
I have no knowledge of shoots that trash the bag. It has been a few years since I was on a big commercial shoot but when I was the bag went to the game dealer.
If there are shoots burying or burning the bag, name and shame them, report them to BASC please it is not defensible and will destroy shooting.
Like Ugly and others on here I am part of a small DIY syndicate, bag average 50 birds and every bird shot taken home by guns and beaters.
I either skin the birds and wrap them in bacon or take the breasts out and parcel them with bacon and dried apricot. On Monday morning at work I have a queue of new best friends all keen on taking prepared pheasant home for their tea.
Eating what we shoot is defensible and ethical.
Dumping it is not.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#24
When I was a child growing up in Manchester I would see game hanging outside butchers. Today the butchers windows are likely to be vandalised!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#25
#26
It does seem so. I did the March for Freedom purely because I hated the fact that Notting Hill assholes were poking their noses into how the country worked. They fought a class war, not realizing that many people on the hunt are anything but upper class. The trouble is that they imagined that Reynard was a cute and fluffy little tyke who caused no damage and should be left alone.

The twats also didn't realize that any farmer knew his land like the back of his hand and would go out and kill Reynard and family with other means instead of leaving him for the hunt.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#27
Cokecan, can you guarantee that the deer stalking is ethical? I know of plenty of places where its close to slaughter. Just because it enters the food chain doesn't take away from vast numbers involved and these are to meet govt targets
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#28
It does seem so. I did the March for Freedom purely because I hated the fact that Notting Hill assholes were poking their noses into how the country worked. They fought a class war, not realizing that many people on the hunt are anything but upper class. The trouble is that they imagined that Reynard was a cute and fluffy little tyke who caused no damage and should be left alone.

The twats also didn't realize that any farmer knew his land like the back of his hand and would go out and kill Reynard and family with other means instead of leaving him for the hunt.
Me too
 
#29
I could pay a whore thousands of pounds to batter her to within an inch of her life if she agreed to it and wanted the money. That would not stop me being a sad c**t though would it?
Then you misunderstand the completeness of what Trophy hunting is. ( Stay with me for a bit before biting )

All things die.
In the wild, most things die by being killed and eaten by other wild animals, usually the weak first ie young, old, sick, lame.
The old and sick deer in this country are in that condition because their teeth have worn out and they are beginning to starve to death. ( Wolves would have had them wees ago, but we killed all our wolves )

If you go to eg Africa and pay to kill a knackered old Lion snoozing under a tree you are some kind of a ****.
On the other hand if you wander for a day in
lion country, close vegetation, spear or rifle you have testicular fortitude.

Back to UK.
If you kill a fantastic beast, take the meat,...
Why waste the rest ? A magnificent set of antlers is just that, magnificent.
One of the reasons it is magnificent is the amount of time Deer Managers spend observing the numbers, types and health of their local herds.
 
#30
If you go to eg Africa and pay to kill a knackered old Lion snoozing under a tree you are some kind of a ****.
On the other hand if you wander for a day in
lion country, close vegetation, spear or rifle you have testicular fortitude.

Back to UK.
If you kill a fantastic beast, take the meat,...
Why waste the rest ? A magnificent set of antlers is just that, magnificent.
One of the reasons it is magnificent is the amount of time Deer Managers spend observing the numbers, types and health of their local herds.
I'm not saying to waste the antlers if you sell or eat the meat, It is the killing for a photo whilst holding up the animals head and taking the skin / horns / antlers only that is shit and spineless.

However if they're going to hunt a lion? Grow a pair and head in country with just a 6" knife and some wits about them. That would be a sport worth televising.
 
#31
You can go over and over on the arguments for and against forever.
I like to look at, and believe what I have read over the years on the subject of game bird hunting.
It supports thousand of jobs all over the UK, and most importantly the RSPB support it (or at least used too).
Research has proven that land managed for a shoot, supports far more species than just Pheasant or Grouse.
Take away the shoots, and gamekeepers, and you would be left with a landscape barren of our Avian friends.
 
#32
...guarantee...
of course not, are you a fool?

we all know there are 'sporting estates' that close-off/disturb cover to force the Deer out into the open to make it easier for 'sportsmen' to hunt and shoot them. we all know such places stock their land with far more Deer than it can support so there's more to shoot, and that they leave piles of food out in the open to set the Deer up to be shot.

my point is that Deer stalking can, should be ethical and sporting - that great skill can be required to hunt the animal, great skill required to get to a location where a shot can be taken, and then great skill is required to put the bullet in the right place.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#33
Gameshooting can be ethical! A few fools may have dropped the ball but that doesn't detract from a day of challenging birds in good company, I'm not talking about the stratospheric shoots set up to milk those city guns normal countryside where often the choice is to leave the bird for another drive or another day is the right one. In count how many birds are flushed from each drive as evidence of how well the shoot has worked. The bag is only a measure of accurate or lucky shooting. The true measure is how happy the shoot members are!
Our farm has had the environmental assesors round to count species in an attempt to build a case aginst a bypass. 7000 separate species on our well managed farm!
 
#34
...Gameshooting can be ethical!
shooting birds can of course be both ethical and sporting - the ethical bit is the proportion of the birds population you shoot, and how the bird lives and dies, and what happens to the meat. the sporting bit is the difficulty and the 'fairness' of the contest.

finding a good spot, or prowling through the patch to find, not spook, and then shoot the birds is sporting - not stressing them, killing them quickly and humanely , and then eating them (unless they are a wildly over-populated pest) is ethical.

using a line of beaters waving flags and making noise to scare the birds and hurd them towards another line of people with shotguns - not ethical, and not sporting.
 
#35
Most so called trophy hunting puts far more back into the locals pockets than anywildlfe charity ever does!
The meat from the animals goes to the villages of those who work for the PH too, thus removing the need to go out & kill animals themselves, which is invariably more wasteful & damaging.
 
#36
shooting birds can of course be both ethical and sporting - the ethical bit is the proportion of the birds population you shoot, and how the bird lives and dies, and what happens to the meat. the sporting bit is the difficulty and the 'fairness' of the contest.

finding a good spot, or prowling through the patch to find, not spook, and then shoot the birds is sporting - not stressing them, killing them quickly and humanely , and then eating them (unless they are a wildly over-populated pest) is ethical.

using a line of beaters waving flags and making noise to scare the birds and hurd them towards another line of people with shotguns - not ethical, and not sporting.

Driven shoots are just another technique used to to hunt Pheasants. It is not something we practice here but I find it rather fascinating and would love to take my dad and brother along and participate in a few over in the UK. I would love to try it from both aspects as the shooter on a peg and a beater in the field.

We also use dogs and if the circumstance permits blockers. The goal is to spook them and get them to fly, not shoot them on the ground......

It all results in the same thing, an opportunity to shoot birds. But it is still up to the hunter's skills and abilities to put meat on the table. You don't hit everything you shoot at either. However to say this is unethical and not sporting is well retarded. It is just a different method that uses more team players to achieve the same results. The real joy is the company you have and the memories that are made. Taking home a limit of birds is just a bonus. As it has been stated most of the shoots don't kill thousands of birds in a day, but upwards of maybe 50. These are just average Joe's (excuse the Americanism) trying to enjoy a passion in life. Of which I can understand because I was bird dogging (beating) when I was 7 years old and got to carry a shotgun when I was 12 and participate.

Hunting is a great way to educate the youf and create more people who are willing to preserve habitat for all creatures. Hunters such as Ugly and Ravers spend far more time trying to maintain the land,( which benefit more than just the game birds) then they do pulling the trigger. It can be a thankless task.

But your slandering an entire sport and the people who participate in it because you don't think it is fair is unjust and silly.
 
#37
i'd like to say its the rich cnuts who pay £1000 for a mornings 'sport' that are ruining it, but i'm afraid that from where i sit - i live in a rural area, i'm surrounded by small shoots and the the people who shoot on them are my neighbours - i can count on one hand the number of times i've seen/heard of people eat Pheasant. either some people are eating 4 a day every day of the year, or its not just the outrageously expensive shoots that are dumping them.

the local butchers all have Pheasant and Grouse hanging up in the window, but if you ask them they'll tell you they sell a tiny number every year - its about the look that brings in business. so if the people that shoot them don't eat them (apart from on your shoot), and the butchers don't sell them - who eats them?
I'm given unwanted birds by the keeper off one of the local shoots when he's left with them.
I'm not particulary enamoured to those who shoot the birds, then don't want them.
 

MrBane

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#38
I have never shot and killed an animal (except a dog in Afghan and that was only because it was in my GPMG beating zone!) but I've always felt I should try it and eat the end result.

No idea where to start (no guns for one!) or, as I'm now reading, how to do it..... Ethically?

Any pointers?
 
#39
You get wastage in any industry.
I remember walking past a butchers in Norwich one Christmas eve in the afternoon and seeing a dozen or so turkies hung out to be given away.
Likewise when my local Sainsburys had opened up on Christmas eve they had huge free range turkies reduced from thirty five quid to fifty pence.
My freezer would have been working overtime, but I don't much care for the stuff.
I would rather eat a bird that had been out in the wild and given the opportunity to escape rather than one that had been penned into an enclosure all of its life.
 
#40
Driven shoots are just another technique used to to hunt Pheasants. It is not something we practice here but I find it rather fascinating and would love to take my dad and brother along and participate in a few over in the UK. I would love to try it from both aspects as the shooter on a peg and a beater in the field.

We also use dogs and if the circumstance permits blockers. The goal is to spook them and get them to fly, not shoot them on the ground......

It all results in the same thing, an opportunity to shoot birds. But it is still up to the hunter's skills and abilities to put meat on the table. You don't hit everything you shoot at either. However to say this is unethical and not sporting is well retarded. It is just a different method that uses more team players to achieve the same results. The real joy is the company you have and the memories that are made. Taking home a limit of birds is just a bonus. As it has been stated most of the shoots don't kill thousands of birds in a day, but upwards of maybe 50. These are just average Joe's (excuse the Americanism) trying to enjoy a passion in life. Of which I can understand because I was bird dogging (beating) when I was 7 years old and got to carry a shotgun when I was 12 and participate.

Hunting is a great way to educate the youf and create more people who are willing to preserve habitat for all creatures. Hunters such as Ugly and Ravers spend far more time trying to maintain the land,( which benefit more than just the game birds) then they do pulling the trigger. It can be a thankless task.

But your slandering an entire sport and the people who participate in it because you don't think it is fair is unjust and silly.
Is growing deer plots unethical?
 

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