The wests moral erosion has undermined the war on terror

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by GuyT, Jul 24, 2006.

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  1. Article by author Max Hastings: "The west's moral erosion has undermined the war on terror"

    Full article & comment at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1827328,00.html

    I can't help but think that events throughout the region are beginning to get out of control, and certainly Bush and Blair don't have the ability to solve them. Are there ANY talented politicians out there?

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    Best.

    G.
     
  2. Similar one here from Saturday's Mail - by the same chap.


     
  3. Max Hastings is a very credible historian. Bush & Blair would do well to take notice of what he says. Sad thing is that neither of the arrogant cnuts will of course.
     
  4. Yes, he knows what he's on about. I read his excellent book "Armageddon - the Battle for Germany 1944-45" last year.

    I wish Blair and Bush had his talent for spotting developing trends through history.

    G.
     
  5. untallguy

    untallguy Old-Salt Reviewer Book Reviewer

    Got a lot of time for MH - however, less time for Bush and Blair.

    If Blair has so little time for the history and culture of his own nation (Neue Arbeit's attempts to change everything from the Constitution of the UK downwards), how can we expect to have any time for the fistory and culture of the rest of the world?
     
  6. There's the rub - Hastings is a historian not a strategist or tactician. Add the fact that he is a supporter of the Tory party and You find why he is so critical of the present activities in the Sandpit.

    Don't get me wrong, everything is not sweetness and light but the way he sees it there is no hope for us in either country, most unlike John Simpson in his latest piece from Afghanistan who acknowledges the shortfalls of the campaign in Helmand but sees the bigger picture. Simpson is probably the BBCs most experienced Middle Eastern commentator, more so than even Bowan
     
  7. Sven, I have no idea if Hastings is a supporter of the Tory party - you might well be right about that. However I'd imagine his concerns are genuine as this is far too serious a matter for political point scoring against either the Torys or against Labour. It's worth noting that his articles have appeared in the Mail and the Guardian over the last couple of days.

    History has a habit of repeating itself, and good historians are capable of spotting and understanding complicated strategies and tactics. Do you consider Bush and Blair to be strategists and tacticians? I'd imagine that Hastings has a more than adequate grasp of the bigger picture.

    Do you have a link for Simpson's latest piece from Afghanistan - I'd be interested to take a look?

    Many thanks.

    G.
     
  8. Bliar and Bush et al. are politicians an entirely separate species from Homo sapiens sapiens due to probable mutations during the crossover and recombination stages. They are, therefore, incapable of acting otherwise due to their genetics and are predisposed to exhibit the behaviours we see from them. A trifle facetious and cynical position I will grant but one I feel is often justified when speaking of such "consummate statesmen".

    It is all becoming a little like when Brer Rabbit met the Tar-baby. I am unsure at present by whom is Brer Fox represented.

    The US government has never been backward in flexing its muscles at anyone or anything it deems to be a threat to what the US government perceives as the natural order of the world. This is not only restricted to politics, military conflicts or enemies. It very much also includes trade, corporate freedoms to persue profits at any expense and any allies it considers are in danger of becoming less than publicly obsequious to the US government's strategy. I feel at times the US government is like a school yard bully attempting to shore up its own self esteem by intimidating others. Dangerous times for those who do not wish to fall into line.

    I do not blame the rest of the ME for attempting to maintain their distance from this situation nor for them condemning Hizbollah's actions. Personally I feel it was a monumentally stupid move on Hizbollah's part to kidnap those Israelis. Then again I am not member of their organisation and so there is only so much insight one can have into a group like that without it becoming coloured with your own life experience. I also do not envy the Lebanese government they seem caught between a rock and a hard place.

    I do not blame the Saudi's for trying to steer the situation towards a possible resolution rather than one that involves US GWoT goals. There is enough going on over there without them attracting the attention of an already fired up Israel. Looking at the track record for Israel they really have no problem continuing with a situation, no matter how much damage it causes them or others as long as they get what they want, regardless of what everyone else thinks or attempts to do to achieve resolution. I cannot see them being particularly worried about adding more targets to their list at present if so inclined.

    To me it goes beyond that, though, to what are the true long term motives of those involved. Call me uncharitable or overly suspicious but I am struggling to "think pleasant thoughts" about how the Israelis are conducting themselves at present. I know they have soldiers missing over there but has not Israel overstepped the mark of even basic human decency? The media coverage will of course be a mix of subjective and objective reports and it is often hard to separate logic from emotional response when presented with images of Lebanese infants in nappies with burns, orphaned because they were attempting to flee Israeli air strikes. If even the parents of the missing soldiers are asking if the Israeli government has sidelined their issue in favour of more pressing concerns then I begin to ask what the hell is wrong with this whole situation. I am not Israeli so my insight into their thinking comes from my contact with Israelis and perhaps I am "unlucky" that the ones I have dealings with on a daily basis all express the opinion Israel's actions in bombing Lebanon and its non-Hizbollah population is entirely justified and indeed "overdue".

    It was interesting to hear the audio yesterday from one of the Israeli commanders as they were reporting IDF troops were moving into southern Lebanon and encountering resistance. IIRC - "We will continue to destroy everything.........................................of Hizbollah's." The word Hizbollah was added, almost as an afterthought. The stirring words being bandied about on both sides really will not help the innocent civilians caught in the middle. I guess when it is not your son or daughter lying limbless/lifeless on the roadside it is easier to write their injuries off as collateral damage that will eventually lead to the destruction of your enemies.



    (errant apostrophe removed D'OH)
     
  9. I liked the line about how the US policies kept its hated enimies in power.
    How true.
    john
     
  10. Interesting comment about Israel mizkrissi - - -> especially relevant when considering the recent deaths of the 4 UN Observers. I can't imagine the Israelis would have intentionally targeted them but then who knows?

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    Best.

    G.