The West vs China: history repeating itself in Darfur?

Discussion in 'Multinational HQ' started by Devil_Dog, Sep 14, 2007.

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  1. First of all let me say that I absolutely abhor the violence in Darfur and if we weren't engaged in this untenable war in Iraq, we would have the power and will to prevent and stop this decades old genocide.

    That said, isn't the West being a little disingenious here? To attack the Chinese for propping up murderous regimes seems to me (at least) to be highly hypocritical.

    For years and years, we gave aid and comfort to numerous enemies of democracy. From Mobutu to Saddam and even - sadly enough Bin Laden -we gave them money, arms and logistical support ,just so they could validate our beliefs and positions. In the process, they killed millions of people and even now, whole continents are struggling to recover.

    Short term solutions for long term problems will be the death of us.

    Now that our nearsightedeness has come back to bite us in the arrsse, how DARE we forget that we are guilty of the same sins. Sins, which I might add, we don't have the moral courage to confess to.

    The Chinese took a lesson from the history books. A history, which I am ashamed to say, was written by us.
  2. I agree but regardless of Iraq, there is no way the West would put boots on the ground or get involved militarily unless it was through UN. Iraq hasn't been around for decades, and the US did sweet FA to help out then...likewise the's just a return to Soviet/West Proxy wars.

  3. The Chinese have certainly learned the rules of the game that we wrote down, but I don't think their objectives are formed in the same way. Theirs is a radically different and highly insular culture that's only just started to look outward in the last 20 or so years. Up to that point, the Inner Kingdom mentality ruled and to a large extent still does.

    As I keep saying to those who claim, "the Chinese are doing X, Y or Z to us", no their not, they're just doing A, B or C. They really couldn't care less about us or what happens to us, since we're not Chinese. It's an incredibly callous yet much more honest attitude than the West and that's one of the reasons I like the place so much.

    Same about Darfur, I don't think they give a monkeys what Africans do to each other so long as they get the oil and minerals they need.

    See, there's more common ground than you'd think!
  4. 8) 8) OIL, OIL, OIL, and money to a corrupt Sudan Govt from a corrupt Chinese Govt. China needs oil, is buying it up in parts of Africa, they like Russia dont want to colanise countries it is the not the way to go so use money and to use greedy corrupt govts to do it 8) 8) 8) 8)

  5. We taught 'em well, didn't we? We taught 'em well.
  6. Didn't the Second World War in the Pacific between Japan and the US start because the US lead an embargo against Japan that denied the Japanese the raw materials they needed to survive?

    I don't think there's any other choice but to let the Chinese have all the oil they can buy, just like the west. A China full of middle-class consumers will not go to war. A China full of third world peasant farmers will. Or so I think anyways.

  7. In fairness to China, they have sent Peacekeepers to the Region (who from what I've heard, are well thought of by their fellow blue-hats) and are putting pressure on the Sudanese government (not as much as would be appreciated though).
  8. 400-odd PLA engineers and medics recently left Darfur and GOC UNMIS handed over a load of unit commendations and individual awards to them. That was their second rotation in theatre.

    Peacekeeping is the biggest role for the PLA and PAP outside of defence of the homeland. Even sabre-rattling against Taiwan only involves a couple of the eastern military districts these days. They're becoming a professional army and seems like they're beginning to act like it.
  9. Indeed, Gen. Pace even said as much when he was visiting China earlier this year. It would really be nifty if something were to materialize from the recent military-to-military visists between the USA and PRC
  10. Chief_Joseph said:

    Doubt anything will come of it. Especially not with the mob running the place right now.
  11. I didn't say it would happen, just that it would be nice.

    We'll have to see. I know Pace and his delegation discussed the possibility of short-term cadet and instructor exchanges between Chinese and American military academies with their Chinese counterparts. A comfortable arrangement between China and the US would be a great thing for the world.

    I'm not blind to the obstacles to such a relationship, and the fact that there will always be suspision. I'm not saying that it's something that is happening or something we're on track for, I'm just saying it's a possibility.