The West plans to fight against Russian propaganda

Is Putin's agitprop dangerous for the West?

  • It's extremely dangerous

    Votes: 19 44.2%
  • It's a problem but not so big

    Votes: 9 20.9%
  • It's nasty but not a problem at all

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • Putin's agitprop is primitive and inefficient

    Votes: 4 9.3%
  • There is no any Russian propaganda - it's just a freedom of information

    Votes: 5 11.6%
  • Don't know/don't care

    Votes: 5 11.6%

  • Total voters
    43
...I’m wondering if you feel any unease when you choose to show pictures that make you look stupid. You have been posting things that make you appear retarded for quite a few years. What do you gain from this?

Fewer beatings and an extra potato. His commissar doesn't know any better either...
 
Are you sure there are no queues for food in Russia?
Personally I have not seen them. Supermarkets are overloaded with food and there are no any queues.

The economic malaise is also reflected in the consistently high demand for the mobile soup kitchens and homeless shelters operated by Nochlezhka, one of Russia's oldest and best-known charitable organizations.

Grigory Sverdlin, who has headed the organization for 11 years, said they serve hot meals daily to around 150 people -- many of them homeless- -- in both St. Petersburg and Moscow. He said they are also more frequently providing legal aid to people who've ended up homeless due to skyrocketing real estate prices or a corrupt bureaucracy.
Moscow (12 mln)/ Sankt-Peterburg (5 mln). 150 people in this context is a drop in the ocean - less than 0.01%.
There is a lot of poor people in Russia and in the USA who don't have money to feed themselves.
 
Anyway, I have strong impression that HMG has something to hide in the Skripal's case, that on certain phase investigators stopped to dig.

Yes. I reckon the Skripals were kept in a cellar with rats.

Just to repeat that mr.Assange was persecuted only because he sexually abuses two Swedish ladies? So it is a big question - what mr.Raab meant using the very term 'the truth'.

If Assange did abuse the women in question, he should be trialled and if convicted, punished. The word persecution implies being punished for no reason.

He is also partial to the abuse of state secrets. Such secrets are kept for the security of the state AND/OR the protection of its citizens depending on the information in question.

In the UK we have the official secrets act. I can give you specific generalist examples of the type of secret that protects the individual if you like.

To go on, Assange was most displeased when information pertaining to the case against him in regards of alleged rape was leaked and made public. Apparently some secrets are ok to divulge but not the ones relating to him.

Truth is truth. There is only one truth. One of the problems with agitprop implies that there are many truths and this is compounded by the fact that modern media both agitprop and Western media promotes the idea of personal truth based on , er feelings.

Events in political jungles are unpredictable.

Indeed.

I am a tad concerned that you are pottering around the ideas of Social Darwinism here.This was one of the tenets of the National Socialist party and is now being promoted by agitprop and, it has to be said, Western commentators.

Survival of the fittest doesn't mean what these people think it means and such thoughts are best left in books. They tend to lead to Treblinka.
 
Personally I have not seen them. Supermarkets are overloaded with food and there are no any queues.
I haven't seen queues for soup kitchens and food banks in the UK. However, I know they exist.

In the UK we have a fair few queues outside supermarkets that I've seen as well, albeit that's more to do with 'social distancing'. Supermarkets are invariably full of foodstuff, although there are at times shortages when idiots stock up eg toilet rolls.
Moscow (12 mln)/ Sankt-Peterburg (5 mln). 150 people in this context is a drop in the ocean - less than 0.01%.
There is a lot of poor people in Russia and in the USA who don't have money to feed themselves.
Your point (repeated above) was that there were no queues. There are. Or is the article quoted wrong?
 
Indeed in comparison with brutal Putin's regime, the UK is a paradise of democracy and human rights. Even rights of foreigners outside Great Britain are being defended by HMG. There is an excellent example in this context. I mean 2 Swedish dames sexually abused by an Australian.
This was not a matter of the UK honouring the human rights of two Swedish women.
It’s a country handling international agreements on arrest warrants.

Just like the arrest warrants would be honoured if two tourists are alive and decide to travel outside of Russia
 
Thank you for interesting comment. I was well aware that the word 'dame' is not widely being used, in fact only as a title (Dame Helen Mirren, for example). Now I see that ironical undertext was not understood. I'm interesting - does expression Frau minister sound a bit ironic in English? In Russian it looks ironic.
First, are you sure you know what "ironic" means? Second, hidden meanings will have a strong cultural dependency and may not translate well to a different culture. Beyond mastering the grammar, vocabulary, and pronunciation of English, you would need to have a very intimate knowledge of contemporary culture before engaging in all but the simplest of word play.

The expression "Frau minister" would only make sense if applied to a German cabinet minister, and in most contexts it would be interpreted as an example of someone trying to appear clever and worldly by showing that he had some familiarity with foreign languages. Of course if it was used inappropriately it could make him look like a fool.

As for Swedish ladies who were victims of evil mr.Assange then I tried to underline that British authorities applied extraordinary efforts to defends their rights. So one could think that they are members of Swedish royal family or at least noble aristocrats (=dames).
If you have to explain word play then you have failed. Failed word play detracts from what you were trying to say rather than reinforcing it.

An actual Russian propagandist who wanted to pass as a native English speaker would need to spend years living in an English speaking country, talking to local people, and immersing himself in the local culture in order to master the language.

And even then that would be for that one country only. For example I live in a country adjacent to the US but I often have no idea what Americans are talking about. Sometimes it's their accent, sometimes it's words that they use, and sometimes I may understand every word they said but the words make no sense because I have no common context to put what they said into.
 
Anyway, I have strong impression that HMG has something to hide in the Skripal's case, that on certain phase investigators stopped to dig.

Allegedly they're trying to cover up the evidence linking Putin with gopher gate and his alleged meeting with Philip Scofield in the broom cupboard

Scofileld has already admitted he came out after the Gopher threatened to sell his story, so any evidence of Putin's involvement would be dynamite
 
Yes. I reckon the Skripals were kept in a cellar with rats.
Sergei? Maybe ... but Yulia ... in a cellar with rats? Unthinkable. It would be a torture.
If Assange did abuse the women in question, he should be trialled and if convicted, punished. The word persecution implies being punished for no reason.
Maybe you have heard about mr.Navalny, who was poisoned the last year (allegedly by Novichok type poison) but saved by Russian and German doctors. He returned to Moscow and immediately was detained. Now he is in the jail - from formal point of view for fraud but real cause of persecution is his critical position toward mr.Putin and his band of corrupted officials.
From the start it was clear that sexual relations of Assange with 2 Swedish ladies was a formal cause for Swedish and British governments to please Washington. Fate of Assange is a lesson for other potential whistleblowers - Washington has long arms.
If we compare mr.Assange with the Skripals then Assange at least was visited by medics many times. As for the Skripals then it is still unclear - are they in detention or not.

He is also partial to the abuse of state secrets. Such secrets are kept for the security of the state AND/OR the protection of its citizens depending on the information in question.

In the UK we have the official secrets act. I can give you specific generalist examples of the type of secret that protects the individual if you like.

To go on, Assange was most displeased when information pertaining to the case against him in regards of alleged rape was leaked and made public. Apparently some secrets are ok to divulge but not the ones relating to him.

Truth is truth. There is only one truth. One of the problems with agitprop implies that there are many truths and this is compounded by the fact that modern media both agitprop and Western media promotes the idea of personal truth based on , er feelings.
Mr. (later Ms) Manning indeed violated US law and being US citizen is no doubt guilty. But what about journalists? Do you reckon that any journalist who published information illegally obtained by Manning is guilty and has to be extradited to the USA even not being US citizen? In this case a good half of journalists in the World could appear in US jails.
Indeed.

I am a tad concerned that you are pottering around the ideas of Social Darwinism here.This was one of the tenets of the National Socialist party and is now being promoted by agitprop and, it has to be said, Western commentators.

Survival of the fittest doesn't mean what these people think it means and such thoughts are best left in books. They tend to lead to Treblinka.
... or Guantanamo where people were kept many years without trial that would be impossible on American soil. Though ... Guantanamo ... it's in Cuba. So probably Cuban evil communists are responsible.
I'm not a supporter of Social Darwinism and didn't used the term in my previous post. However, application of Darwin theory to international relations is not absolutely senseless.
 
I haven't seen queues for soup kitchens and food banks in the UK. However, I know they exist.

In the UK we have a fair few queues outside supermarkets that I've seen as well, albeit that's more to do with 'social distancing'. Supermarkets are invariably full of foodstuff, although there are at times shortages when idiots stock up eg toilet rolls.

Your point (repeated above) was that there were no queues. There are. Or is the article quoted wrong?
I would like to return to the article published by Reuters that I quoted
Suppose that exactly the same article (with the same title and picture) appears on RT site. Would you describe it is notorious Putin's agitprop or just balanced, unbiased report?
 
First, are you sure you know what "ironic" means?
I dare to suggest that yes. My first post on this thread was ironic while only a few our friends recognized is as such.
Second, hidden meanings will have a strong cultural dependency and may not translate well to a different culture. Beyond mastering the grammar, vocabulary, and pronunciation of English, you would need to have a very intimate knowledge of contemporary culture before engaging in all but the simplest of word play.

The expression "Frau minister" would only make sense if applied to a German cabinet minister, and in most contexts it would be interpreted as an example of someone trying to appear clever and worldly by showing that he had some familiarity with foreign languages. Of course if it was used inappropriately it could make him look like a fool.
Indeed many depends on cultural context. In Russian word Frau (ФРАУ) is connected to the image of German housekeeper with bounded circle of interests KKK - kinder küche kirche (Children, Kitchen, Church). So (for example) when German minister of defence Ursula von der Leyen sounds her valuable ideas she sometimes is called as 'frau minister' in Russian mass media.
If you have to explain word play then you have failed. Failed word play detracts from what you were trying to say rather than reinforcing it.

An actual Russian propagandist who wanted to pass as a native English speaker would need to spend years living in an English speaking country, talking to local people, and immersing himself in the local culture in order to master the language.
Let's leave related problems to propagandists. Personally I never hid that I'm not native English speaker.
And even then that would be for that one country only. For example I live in a country adjacent to the US but I often have no idea what Americans are talking about. Sometimes it's their accent, sometimes it's words that they use, and sometimes I may understand every word they said but the words make no sense because I have no common context to put what they said into.
Such a coincidence. I live in environment adjacent to the world of Russian politicians. Frequently I understand every word they said but the words make no sense for me. I even suspect that they themselves don't understand what do they speak about.
From my point of view good irony should not be 'on the surface' but be a bit hidden. In ideal varial only half recognized irony and another half needs explanation. Of course you might disagree.
 
Sergei? Maybe ... but Yulia ... in a cellar with rats? Unthinkable. It would be a torture.

Maybe you have heard about mr.Navalny, who was poisoned the last year (allegedly by Novichok type poison) but saved by Russian and German doctors. He returned to Moscow and immediately was detained. Now he is in the jail - from formal point of view for fraud but real cause of persecution is his critical position toward mr.Putin and his band of corrupted officials.
From the start it was clear that sexual relations of Assange with 2 Swedish ladies was a formal cause for Swedish and British governments to please Washington. Fate of Assange is a lesson for other potential whistleblowers - Washington has long arms.
If we compare mr.Assange with the Skripals then Assange at least was visited by medics many times. As for the Skripals then it is still unclear - are they in detention or not.


Mr. (later Ms) Manning indeed violated US law and being US citizen is no doubt guilty. But what about journalists? Do you reckon that any journalist who published information illegally obtained by Manning is guilty and has to be extradited to the USA even not being US citizen? In this case a good half of journalists in the World could appear in US jails.

... or Guantanamo where people were kept many years without trial that would be impossible on American soil. Though ... Guantanamo ... it's in Cuba. So probably Cuban evil communists are responsible.
I'm not a supporter of Social Darwinism and didn't used the term in my previous post. However, application of Darwin theory to international relations is not absolutely senseless.
Remember that it was you who first came up with the ‘idea’ of both Sergei and Yulia being held prisoner

 
I would like to return to the article published by Reuters that I quoted
Suppose that exactly the same article (with the same title and picture) appears on RT site. Would you describe it is notorious Putin's agitprop or just balanced, unbiased report?
Disinformation 101. Deny any counterpoint, despite evidence. Deny that there is anything similar in Russia. We’ve already had ‘whataboutery’. Next we’ll have obfuscation and multiple ‘plausible scenarios’.

It’s what you (and Putin’s agitprop) do.
 

Slime

LE
It’s a bit comical that the KGB avatar said Navalny had his life saved by ‘Russian and German doctors’ in post #88, but neglected to add where and by whom Navalny was poisoned with Novichock.

After Navalny was poisoned by Russians with the Russian nerve agent his life was saved by German doctors. As he was very much alive by the time he returned to Russia the Russian doctors he may have seen had nothing to do with saving his life.

We should also note the KGB avatar mentions fraud when talking about Navalny, and not the breaking of probation rules.............whereby Navalny was unable to comply with his probation term applied by the Russian state as he was too ill after being poisoned by the Russian state.

Perhaps the KGB avatar also forgot to add that Navalny is not only now in jail, and has been on hunger strike, but that the Russian state has declared Navalny’s perfectly legal and democratic party as a terrorist organisation.

As an aside, I wonder if KGB saw the ‘queue’ of Russian police outside Nalvalny’s party office, just before they smashed tge door open and ransacked the place?
I wonder why he thinks they didn’t just turn up when the office was open or just ask someone to unlock the door?

Did those Russian police think the door or office chairs inside were a national threat :)
 

But is it so big problem? Putin's agitprop is primitive, frequently it is based on fake news, allegations and disinformation. Just read the Sun or the Daily Mail and you will get reliable and trustworthy information.

 
Sergei? Maybe ... but Yulia ... in a cellar with rats? Unthinkable. It would be a torture.

Strangely, you claimed that both had been kept in a cellar with rats in the Novichok thread. You really must pay attention to those handover notes.

Maybe you have heard about mr.Navalny, who was poisoned the last year (allegedly by Novichok type poison) but saved by Russian and German doctors. He returned to Moscow and immediately was detained. Now he is in the jail - from formal point of view for fraud but real cause of persecution is his critical position toward mr.Putin and his band of corrupted officials.
From the start it was clear that sexual relations of Assange with 2 Swedish ladies was a formal cause for Swedish and British governments to please Washington. Fate of Assange is a lesson for other potential whistleblowers - Washington has long arms.
If we compare mr.Assange with the Skripals then Assange at least was visited by medics many times. As for the Skripals then it is still unclear - are they in detention or not.

Navalny was poisoned as far as is known. Your avatar appeared at one time to accept that the Skripals were poisoned by the same or related agent.

The question you should ask is: Were there allegations against Assange in connection of his commission of rape? Such is a serious offence both in Sweden and UK and USA. If the answer is yes, then you have no argument.

Mr. (later Ms) Manning indeed violated US law and being US citizen is no doubt guilty. But what about journalists? Do you reckon that any journalist who published information illegally obtained by Manning is guilty and has to be extradited to the USA even not being US citizen? In this case a good half of journalists in the World could appear in US jails.

If Assange has broken USA law, then patently yes. If I go to USA or conspire with citizens of USa to rob a bank, then the relevant authorities are obliged to have me extradited. This is common sense. I know that Russian citizens cannot be extradited but that is a peculiarity on your part and amongst civilised nations.

... or Guantanamo where people were kept many years without trial that would be impossible on American soil. Though ... Guantanamo ... it's in Cuba. So probably Cuban evil communists are responsible.
I'm not a supporter of Social Darwinism and didn't used the term in my previous post. However, application of Darwin theory to international relations is not absolutely senseless.

Treblinka was a direct consequence of both Social Darwinism and racial theory. Guantanamo is a direct consequence of the USA needing to have an interrogation centre outside the constraints of USA law. Not good but not even in the same ball park.
Darwin theory to international relations is not absolutely senseless.


Please explain.
 
Strangely, you claimed that both had been kept in a cellar with rats in the Novichok thread. You really must pay attention to those handover notes.
Previously I was sure about your sense of humour, ability to see irony, intentional hyperbolization .... Now I begin to doubt. 'Cellar with rats' was no more than ironical hyperbolization.

Navalny was poisoned as far as is known. Your avatar appeared at one time to accept that the Skripals were poisoned by the same or related agent.
German medics published detailed report about Navalny poisoning in the scientific 'The Lancet' magazine. I have read the article. Exact formula of the poison is unknown but it is acetylcholinesterase inhibitor.
As for the Skripals poisoning then there is nothing similar to the report in 'The Lancet'.

The question you should ask is: Were there allegations against Assange in connection of his commission of rape? Such is a serious offence both in Sweden and UK and USA. If the answer is yes, then you have no argument.
Yes, mr.Assange had consensual sex with 2 Swedish ladies. Allegedly sometimes the sex was unprotected for reasons still not established. So the allegations remained just allegations.
Swedish prosecutors have said that though the accusations are "credible," there is not enough evidence to indict the Wikileaks founder.
So as there is not enough evidence to indict mr.Assange then according to the principle of presumption of innocence he is not guilty.
If Assange has broken USA law, then patently yes. If I go to USA or conspire with citizens of USa to rob a bank, then the relevant authorities are obliged to have me extradited. This is common sense. I know that Russian citizens cannot be extradited but that is a peculiarity on your part and amongst civilised nations.
So according to your logic British journalist who publishes interview with mr.Skripal where he discloses Russian state secrets could be detained and jailed in Russia?
Let's look at another example
BBC tells about secret operation conducted by British agents in Moscow. All details are state secret. So what? BBC journalists should be jailed?

Treblinka was a direct consequence of both Social Darwinism and racial theory. Guantanamo is a direct consequence of the USA needing to have an interrogation centre outside the constraints of USA law. Not good but not even in the same ball park.
Let's recall also torture in Abu Graib prison in Iraq. I mean that Guantanamo is not an exception but something that one could expect from Washington. The Nazis decided that certain people are outside the Law. That the Law is not applicable for them and as result Treblinka appeared. In the same way Washington decided that certain people are outside the law and now we see Guantanamo and Abu Graib but are you sure that new American Treblinka is absolutely impossible (maybe on much lower scale)?

Please explain.
It's simple. States compete with each other, sometimes 'kill' and 'eat' each other, unite into packs with pack leader. In other words - international politics is alike political jungles where laws of jungles are in force, including 'might is right'.
 
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Fewer beatings and an extra potato. His commissar doesn't know any better either...

In Capitalist west the proletariat and Tory MP's pay for beatings
 
Previously I was sure about your sense of humour, ability to see irony, intentional hyperbolization .... Now I begin to doubt. 'Cellar with rats' was no more than ironical hyperbolization.


German medics published detailed report about Navalny poisoning in the scientific 'The Lancet' magazine. I have read the article. Exact formula of the poison is unknown but it is acetylcholinesterase inhibitor.
As for the Skripals poisoning then there is nothing similar to the report in 'The Lancet'.


Yes, mr.Assange had consensual sex with 2 Swedish ladies. Allegedly sometimes the sex was unprotected for reasons still not established. So the allegations remained just allegations.

So as there is not enough evidence to indict mr.Assange then according to the principle of presumption of innocence he is not guilty.

So according to your logic British journalist who publishes interview with mr.Skripal where he discloses Russian state secrets could be detained and jailed in Russia?
Let's look at another example
BBC tells about secret operation conducted by British agents in Moscow. All details are state secret. So what? BBC journalists should be jailed?


Let's recall also torture in Abu Graib prison in Iraq. I mean that Guantanamo is not an exception but something that one could expect from Washington. The Nazis decided that certain people are outside the Law. That the Law is not applicable for them and as result appeared Treblinka. In the same way Washington decided that certain people are outside the law and now we see Guantanamo and Abu Graib but are you sure that new American Treblinka is absolutely impossible (maybe on much lower scale)?


It's simple. States compete with each other, sometimes 'kill' and 'eat' each other, unite into packs with pack leader. In other words - international politics is alike political jungles where laws of jungles are in force, including 'might is right'.
How many words do you have to post to get your turnip ration?
 

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