"The Welfare State is behind youth crime"

Too right when the little feckers had rickets and polio they didn't go round mugging people.
jon1467 said:
I rather like the idea of a safety net for those who genuinely fall on hard times.
I see nothing wrong with a safety net, but what it should not be is what it's become: a lifestyle choice which has resulted in generations of welfare junkies.
jon1467 said:

The article makes a few good points but I think that the the underlying premise, i.e. the welfare state should be removed is wrong. I rather like the idea of a safety net for those who genuinely fall on hard times.
There's the key bit.
Agreed then. Lets have a safety net for those who fall on hard times, or who genuinely need it, but lets turf some of these characters out of their cushy little lives and get them earning a living - even if it is a small one.

I feel that the dole should be progressive - to enable those on benefit to earn money without losing out completely.


Removal of the Welfare State won't resolve much. Those who consider welfare as a God given right will just turn to crime if they haven't already. The Welfare State has made it easy for them to believe that they are entitled to have a free ride. Most low level criminals are those who use welfare as a form of 'statutory sick pay' in between earning their wages through the proceeds of crime (or whatever scams they are involved in), or they are the offspring of such people. The system allows them to do it. The same people are those who are responsible for most of the anti-social behavious that you and I pick up the bill for. They make other people's lives hell and ruin what were once happy communities. And they laugh in your face constantly.
DozyBint said:
jon1467 said:
I rather like the idea of a safety net for those who genuinely fall on hard times.
I see nothing wrong with a safety net, but what it should not be is what it's become: a lifestyle choice which has resulted in generations of welfare junkies.
I completely agree with the bit I bolded.
The dole needs to be completely and utterly abolished and a system of comprehensive means testing and enforcement implemented soonest.

17 Kids? oh bad luck, we can't help.

97 inch widescreen TV in the lounge and Xbox 360 in every bedroom?
Sorry, can't help.

These scum are bleeding the country dry nd must be stopped.

Shop a benefits cheat today!
The welfare state needs completely restructuring. For some it has indeed become a lifestyle choice - we now have the third generation of some families who milk the system for all it's worth believing it to be a right.

Bikini_Black is almost dead on with this sentence.

""and a system of comprehensive means testing and enforcement implemented soonest.""

Change the word "means" to "Drug" and I would be with you 100percent
Look at it another way, if they were forced to work for their benefits in a form of "state work placements" they'd soon go out out look for jobs.

Once in employment they'll (possibly) be more inclined to be worn out after a day in work and therefore will have little time or energy for their favourite pastimes, eg crime, procreating, drinking, loitering about.

From my experiance, a high proportion of scummy chav youth criminals come from a background of welfare dependant families.

Forcing them to work can only be a good thing, the argument that they'll turn to crime rather than work is a bit weak as a lot of them are criminals anyway.
I like the idea of working for benefits. It would probably help if we limited immigration in some way so that they actually had a reasonable supply of bottom end jobs. There are some out there who would bother to get off their arrse, but its a challenge to find that many low wage jobs.
Read it this morning and I was pondering the problem and I've come up with two workable (i.e. not national service) ideas.

1. Replace unemployment benefits with a smart card that card only be used for food, utilities, rent, transport and debt repayments. No alcohol or ciggies, and threaten retailers with a £10,000 fine if they do sell those two items via a smart card.

2. Do the same with child benefits, except also allow clothes and educational materials to be purchased.

The telegraph article of course misses the point that the Scandinavian welfare system is far more comprehensive, but they don't have our problems. We simply don't have a caring society, and we never have. People used to be kept in place by class and the threat of poverty, and I don't think that the British national charactor would ever have allowed a system of democratic social cohesion to replace it. We are, and always have been, far too dark and cynical.
Some good points here, but also some space filling crap that really doesn't belong here, or anywhere for that matter.

We should round them all up and use them as test subjects in bizarre and painful experiments: that'll teach them.

The internet: allowing thick fcukers to spout crap.


They take more yet contribute less. They are also responsible for the majority of crime and anti-social conduct.

Let's just kill them.
To quote Biscuits_AB ""They are also responsible for the majority of crime ""
If you use only "Money" as the guidline in the size of a criminal act then that puts the man in Suits who work within the Square Mile of the City of London miles in front of anyone else.
but I digress..


Please digress. I hate it when you're left to fill in the blanks in people's posts. I'm not just talking about theft.
Having recently been on the dole I have to say that it is too easy to get in a rut and make little effort to seriously find work. The unfortunate truth is that the welfare system makes it too comfortable a way of life.
I`m not talking about that in monetary terms but in a responsibility kind of way. You don`t have to worry about finding rent or poll tax as all that is paid out for you. The only time keeping you have to concentrate on is the signing on day. You have a vast amount of time on your hands, I tended to go walking a lot but I came across many people who would work cash in hand to top up their benefits, a very common practise.
The odd thing is that as my wife is partially disabled we got another £35 a week because of this, why?
Over the eighteen months period I was signing on I received three pay rises, more pay rises than I received in at least the previous six years whilst working. In total my wife and I received £130 a week in benefits plus housing and poll tax was paid, this equated to about £230.
The job I`ve just taken I expect to get after tax, about £190 a week for 40 hours, working tax credit will give another £58, this makes a grand total of £248. It costs me £30 in fuel a week just to get to work and back ( I`m leaving out the cost of buying, taxing and insuring a vehicle).
I have to find £90 a week for rent and poll tax, this leaves £128, slightly less than the dole money, am I a mug? 8O
The cost of middle class crime is four times that of burglary. This was reported in several papers a few years ago but since We are all Daily Hate readers here I use their report

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