The War In Iraq

[Phil306]

It appears the consensus is the War in Iraq is wrong and, by alot of persons, illegal. So, now what do we do? The war is there, its not going away, etc.

So what do we do now?

 

[logical_log]

well it may be no good for the Iraqis but at least it gives the army something to do.Im sure they would rather be sitting around in Germany or Salisbury plain pulling thier plonkers though.

 

[changingmag]

As usual, we'll end up doing what George Dubyer wants (maybe). Opinion in the US is going against the war (poll on CNN last night): 71% against the war; 74% say the Senate are w*kers (sort of). Other stations on TV regularly show pic's along with emotional music of the latest casualties (and there's fkn loads).
So, watch that space. Sequel to Apocalypse Now en route.

 

[Phil306]

Pretty interesting. Many people have looked at this thread, NO ONE has posted a solution to the problem.

Numerous people slam Bush and slam the war. None of them have a solution. Just constant slamming.

 

[Bugsy]

Here's a solution. Pull all the troops out now and let the Iraquis sort it out among themselves. They're sophisticated people and the presence of occupation troops is only making matters much worse.

I'm afraid the grand (and lunatic) Septic plan of gaining a foothold in the Middle East and at the same time letting the military head-sheds play with their little toys has gone awry.

MsG

 

[Scouting for Boys]

How about British forces exit and then focus on Afghanistan?

Oh and change international law so we can buy up the opium for medical use

 

[Ardua_s_Al]

1. ask the Iraqi gov what it actually wants from us;

......IF it's some form of strategic over-watch iot prevent a baathist coup or al sadr kicking off big style, then;

a. withdrawl from BAS

b. ask kuwaitis v nicely if we can re-estab an APOD at Ali Al Salem and an SPOD at Kuwait City.

c. withdrawl/establish operational QRF to/at new APOD.

d. continue (low profile) support to Iraqi MOD/govt as reqd incl provision of ISTAR,Air and SF.

e. await US presidential and UK gen elections

f. pray we get president with a brain and a prime minister with a spine.

g. pray that Iraq does not go completely tats up in the meantime.

OR....

2. Accept strategic failure in Iraq;

a. withdraw and wait for (enevitable) strategic failure on two fronts (AGN).

c. accept end of western civilisation as we know it.

d. wait for sh*t to hit fan BIG STYLE.

e. watch Churchill weep in his grave.

AA

 

[Phil306]

Finally some people willing to put their money where their mouths are.

Where are all of the other "I hate Bush," and "Bliar" haters? Where are YOUR solutions? Except to whine like a bitch, on an internet board?

 

[Drago_Drake]

Finally some people willing to put their money where their mouths are.

Where are all of the other "I hate Bush," and "Bliar" haters? Where are YOUR solutions? Except to whine like a bitch, on an internet board?

Although I too find the constant whining as much a nuisance as you do, I do have to take umbrage at your concept that unless people can sort out Bush/Blair's problem for them, they aren’t allowed to criticise them? Don’t be so bloody stupid.

Iraq was/is an entirely self imposed problem, and they are both entirely deserving of much flack as they get for it.

 

[Phil306]

Bloody stupid? No, not at all. I am NOT against the constant slamming. The point I am trying to make is quite simple:

When is enough, enough?

The point has been made, over and over and over and over and over again. Iraq is wrong, etc.

People are so CONSUMED by their hatred of the war, NOTHING either of these two men do is considered "good." The moment someone says something positive about EITHER, its yeah, "but look at Iraq." The thread turns into NOTHING but a bash on Iraq and a bash on both leaders.

The people who are the most vocal, on this board and others, NEVER have a solution. Just bash, bash, and bash somemore. Nothing but negative bullshit.

They whine like little bitches, on the rag, without offering a solution or even a positive word.

Condemn the war? Sure/fine. However, at the sametime, realize we are there. And I mean WE. We ARE NOT leaving any time soon. No amount of whining on an internet board is going to change that. May make your little feelings feel better, however we aint leaving.

So, instead of fcuking whining like a 5 year old, come up with a positive solution or even a positive contribution to the problem, or shut the fcuk up.

 

[Lucky_Jim]

Partition is my solution.

Iraq was a made-up country, only held together by the iron will of a tyrant.

Let them rule themselves according to the geographic/ethnic divisions.

 

[smithie]

Partition is my solution.

Iraq was a made-up country, only held together by the iron will of a tyrant.

Let them rule themselves according to the geographic/ethnic divisions.

OK, fair. But then you have a rump Sunni state, oilless and poor, and a Shi'a state that is likely to unite with Iran quicker than you can say President Ahmadinejad. The Kurds will probably be alright.

And you then have the question of mixed cities - like Baghdad. There's the potential there to make Sarajevo look like a walk in the park.

edit to add that I'm playing devil's advocate - I don't have a better solution.

 

[Lucky_Jim]

Fair enough comment Smithie. But would you agree that it's a start?

 

[smithie]

Fair enough comment Smithie. But would you agree that it's a start?

I think it's one possible way forwards, yes - and, potentially, it's going to be a necessary step that has to be taken.

I don't think it's the most desirable way forwards, because I suspect that it will lead to more power for Iran, ethnic warfare in places like Baghdad and a lot of very disillusioned Sunnis with a grudge against the US/UK. OBL and al-Q'aeda are Sunni, so that becomes a potential recruiting ground for them.

In other words, if we're thinking about Iraq in terms of 'draining the swamp' in which Islamism is fostered, then I think partition of Iraq would be deepening and widening the swamp.

It may be that facts on the ground force that result - but I hope another option is found instead.

 

[Devil_Dog]

Finally some people willing to put their money where their mouths are.

Where are all of the other "I hate Bush," and "Bliar" haters? Where are YOUR solutions? Except to whine like a bitch, on an internet board?

Listen dude, remember the Fall of Saigon?Fast forward to the Fall of Baghdad.

Frankly, at this point, the only people who are for "staying the course" are the brainwashed and the "I heard it on Fox News" crowd.

The solution?There is no solution other than pulling out ,letting the Shiites and Sunnis duke it out till they reach a self imposed compromise.

 

[jonwilly]

Eh Phil like ya style.
I don't even know why We started the war, so no chance of a DS solution.
john
So tell us why and john will activate the Brain cell.

 

[wrighty]

Didnt Turkey throw its teddy in the corner at the mention of the Kurds going it alone? Threats of invasion etc.

Sad fact of life that ol saddam kept the place togethor by ruthlessly exterminating anyone that threatened his regime. Now that hes out of the picture it seems to be every man and his dog out for a spot of revenge.

 

[muzzleflash]

Partition is my solution.

Let them rule themselves according to the geographic/ethnic divisions.

You'll need to re-consider that one mate, as you'll find that the Turks take issue with it. So much so infact, that they have serious intervention (invasion) plans in place to deal with such a scenario.

My view? I'm with Phil on this, stop shimfing and accept that we're there to stay for a very, VERY long time.

Happy days eh!

 

[jonwilly]

I am still of the opinion that the US gave the Kurds the nod that we will help you in your aims and made promises to Turkey to help them achive their European ambitions.
john
My all dieties above forgive me
'Thank Buddha for the Frog who will never have the Turk in Europe'
and a small prayer for the Nazis of Europe
The Austrians.
Same logic.

 

[arbogrunt]

I don't think there can be a peaceful solution to the mess thats Iraq. Withdrawl would be seen as a massive victory to fundamental Muslim extremists (and lets face it, it WOULD be). The vacuum we left would be filled by the various factions fighting each other in civil war.
If we partitioned the country into its ethnic areas, the Turks would steam in to Kurdistan and the Shia would pretty much become part of Iran. The Sunni would be somewhere in between. The factions would end up fighting themselves and each other.
I think the decisions we make now will have a huge bearing on the world for the next century. Look at the decisions made at the end of WW2, were still fighting the wars that resulted from them. I'm glad I won't have a decision like that on my conscience.
Phil's right, stop bleating and start thinking a) about changing our current strategy in Iraq and b) about fighting the enemy - and winning. Otherwise the West will not be the place that we've grown up in and want our kids to live in.