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The VC

#2
A few civilians (Indian civil Service I think) won VC's during the Indian Mutiny. I think there may have also been a couple of VC's awarded to merchant navy officers during WW! but I don't think they are classed as civilian awards as they held temporary RNR commissions.
 
#4
Punk_trooper said:
ive just read here: http://www.army.mod.uk/structure/4136.aspx that the VC can be awarded to civvies, can anyone remember this happening at all??

cheers all

P-T
Yep

Five civilians have won the VC:

Mr. R.L. Mangles, Mr. W.F. McDonell, Mr. T.H. Kavanagh of the Bengal Civil Service, Mr. G.B. Chicken, a volunteer of the Indian Naval Brigade, during the Indian Mutiny, 1857.
Reverend J.W. Adams, of the Bengal Ecclesiastical Department, during the 2nd Afghan War, 1879.


http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/victoria_cross.htm
 
#5
Bazzinho1977 said:
Yeah. I am sure that a couple of members of the TA have won them over the years.


WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Hmmm.... one was awarded to a Swiss copper at Rorkes Drift. Tropper'll know who it was. Actually, scrub that, Tropper probably actually knew him.
 
#6
Bazzinho1977 said:
Punk_trooper said:
ive just read here: http://www.army.mod.uk/structure/4136.aspx that the VC can be awarded to civvies, can anyone remember this happening at all??

cheers all

P-T
Yeah. I am sure that a couple of members of the TA have won them over the years.


WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Your correct, one of those would be L/Cpl William Coltman VC, DCM and bar, MM and bar MID 1/6th North Staffordshire Regt. Feckin stabs eh :roll:
 

old_fat_and_hairy

LE
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#8
biffins-bridge said:
Bazzinho1977 said:
Punk_trooper said:
ive just read here: http://www.army.mod.uk/structure/4136.aspx that the VC can be awarded to civvies, can anyone remember this happening at all??

cheers all

P-T
Yeah. I am sure that a couple of members of the TA have won them over the years.


WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Your correct, one of those would be L/Cpl William Coltman VC, DCM and bar, MM and bar MID 1/6th North Staffordshire Regt. Feckin stabs eh :roll:
Just goes to show what a waste of rations they are, innit!
 
#9
LeastIcoulddo said:
I thought they got GC's instead to be honest?
Well you learn something new every day.
GC instituted in 1940, so before then a VC awarded to a memeber of CivDiv was perfectly acceptable. The criteria for the two awards is somewhat different as well.
 
#10
sfub said:
Bazzinho1977 said:
Yeah. I am sure that a couple of members of the TA have won them over the years.


WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Hmmm.... one was awarded to a Swiss copper at Rorkes Drift. Tropper'll know who it was. Actually, scrub that, Tropper probably actually knew him.
Frederick Schiess, Natal Mounted Police. Come on! Haven't you ever seen Zulu?

"Hear that 716? He's a peeler, come to arrest the Zulus!"
 
#11
brewmeister said:
sfub said:
Bazzinho1977 said:
Yeah. I am sure that a couple of members of the TA have won them over the years.


WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Hmmm.... one was awarded to a Swiss copper at Rorkes Drift. Tropper'll know who it was. Actually, scrub that, Tropper probably actually knew him.
Frederick Schiess, Natal Mounted Police. Come on! Haven't you ever seen Zulu?

"Hear that 716? He's a peeler, come to arrest the Zulus!"
What, have they made a film of it? Is it any good?
 
#12
Is the main difference between the VC and GC that the GC can be awarded when the awardee wasn't under fire? For instance, the Marine who dived on a trip wired grenade was awarded the GC. So I guess technically if Ross Kemp had encountered a Zulu type situation, he would have been eligible for the VC.
 
#14
leveller said:
[Five civilians have won the VC:

Mr. R.L. Mangles, Mr. W.F. McDonell, Mr. T.H. Kavanagh of the Bengal Civil Service, Mr. G.B. Chicken, a volunteer of the Indian Naval Brigade, during the Indian Mutiny, 1857.
Reverend J.W. Adams, of the Bengal Ecclesiastical Department, during the 2nd Afghan War, 1879.
http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/victoria_cross.htm
My bold.
Brilliant! :D
Either that's a made up name or he's the most unlikely named recipient of the VC. No-one could ever take the micky out of his name after he won that award. :lol:
 
#16
sfub said:
LeastIcoulddo said:
I thought they got GC's instead to be honest?
Well you learn something new every day.
GC instituted in 1940, so before then a VC awarded to a memeber of CivDiv was perfectly acceptable. The criteria for the two awards is somewhat different as well.
I thought the distinction between the two was that VCs are awarded for actions in the presence of the enemy. So I guess if a civvy found themselves in the presence of the enemy, they could still be awarded it.
 
#17
The Merchant Navy became eligable for the award of the VC in 1920, prior to this Merchant Navy personnel awarded the VC were given RNR commissions, sometimes postumously.

See:
http://www.mightyseas.co.uk/articles/awards.htm

During the First World War Mercantile Marine Personnel received a total of 2 VCs, 23 Albert Medals, 10 DSOs, 101 SGMs, 191 DSCs, 98 DSMs, a host of Commendations, 280 Lloyd's Silver Medals for Meritorious Service, 17 Lloyd's Bronze Medals for Meritorious Service, 21 Lloyd's Silver Medals for Saving Life, and 12 Lloyd's Bronze Medals for Saving Life.

Gallantry Awards after the First World War

Following the First World War the gallantry awards system was adapted in recognition of the Merchant Navy’s gallant acts in the face of the enemy. The following is a summary of the position achieved regarding military gallantry awards for the Merchant Navy. This position was achieved by recognising the fact that in times of war the Merchant Navy was in as much, if not more danger than the Royal Navy and that conditions were often indistinguishable.


Victoria Cross Merchant Navy personnel became eligible by Royal Warrant dated 22 May 1920.
Distinguished Service Order Merchant Navy personnel became eligible by Royal Warrant dated 8 March 1943.
Conspicuous Gallantry Medal Merchant Navy Personnel became eligible by an Order in Council dated 17 September 1942.
Distinguished Service Cross Merchant Navy personnel became eligible by an Order in Council dated 18 May 1931.
Distinguished Service Medal Merchant Navy personnel became eligible by an Order in Council dated 17 September 1942.
Mentions in Despatches Merchant Navy Personnel received Certificates of Mentions in Despatches during the Second World War. Furthermore they were entitled to wear the “Mentions in Despatches Emblem” for a King’s Commendation for Brave Conduct.
 
#18
sfub said:
Bazzinho1977 said:
Yeah. I am sure that a couple of members of the TA have won them over the years.


WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Hmmm.... one was awarded to a Swiss copper at Rorkes Drift. Tropper'll know who it was. Actually, scrub that, Tropper probably actually knew him.
Yeah, Cpl Shiess Natal Feds I believe.
 
#20
A member of the IRA, Martin doyle won the VC in WW1 and allegedly came up, in the War of Independence, with one of the 3 Auxies VC-winners, George Onions...both survived.
 

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