The Vatican - a sovereign state?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by rockape34, Jul 7, 2011.

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  1. So it's a CoE then but italian
  2. Because he is ex German Hitler Youth,,,,,and by the way if Adolf Hitler or Mussolini said three Hail Mary's and three Our Fathers before they died they would not have gone to Hell and what's more if they confessed their sins to a priest they would have been forgiven and possibly gone to Heaven.

    And anyway he put his towel on the papal throne to reserve it.
  3. The repentance at death/forgiveness of sins is also in the CoE doctrine, no?

    Otherwise Charles is going somewhere warm
  4. I suppose you could ask the same question of any number of heads of states - Pakistan and Isreal spring to mind.
  5. CoE? isn't that just rebranded Christianity?,,,,,so in answer to your post,,,Is it,,,,Dunno,,,,,,Charles who?.
  6. LancePrivateJones

    LancePrivateJones LE Book Reviewer

    Not sure what point the OP is trying to make here but I'll have a go.

    Firstly, the Vatican City existed way before the Lateran Treaty as a de facto state and it was only Mussolini that gave it the present de jure status.
    It was set up in its original modern form as compensation for the forfeiture of the Papal States during the unification of Italy.

    As a baptised Catholic (I do not use the term 'Roman') I have never felt comfortable with the overwhelming Italian influence in the Vatican, I would be far more comfortable if the HQ was somewhere different.

    BTW, if I were a religious person I would have gone Church of England many moons ago.
    • Like Like x 1

  7. Somewhere different?,,,,Constantinople?,,,,,Antioch?,,,,Jerusalem?,,,,,,Alexandria?,known as The Pentarchy but still Catholics tho.
  8. LancePrivateJones

    LancePrivateJones LE Book Reviewer

    I was thinking of somewhere like Oldham or Rochdale actually.

    Imagine the effect on the local economies.
  9. Yeh the area would go broke when all them pakis packed up and moved back to Yorkshire.
  10. LancePrivateJones

    LancePrivateJones LE Book Reviewer

    OK, Nuneaton then.

    Seriously, the RC HQ is totally infested with Italians and Italianism. It is merely a district of Rome by another name. For a so called Universal church it has very narrow vision and mindedness
    • Like Like x 2
  12. The original poster is incorrect in his assumption that the 'Vatican State' - more properly the Vatican City State - was set up by Mussolini as a result of the 1929 Lateran Concords, as the implication would appear to be that somehow Vatican sovereignty directly (and solely) sprang from the Catholic Church cutting a deal with Mussolini's emerging Fascist dictatorship.

    In this respect, the original poster is either ignoring or is unaware of the history of the Vatican both in relation to the unified Kingdom of Italy from the 1860s onwards (which successive popes refused to recognise) and the much earlier, and far older history of the sovereignty (legal and territorial) of the Holy See, most clearly manifest in the Papal States which existed from the 8th century until military defeat and (illegal) annexation by the Kingdom of Italy in the 1860s. The Papal States comprised quite a sizable territorial unit, about one third of the Italain peninsula even in the mid-1800s - it had its own government, army, naval forces, police and gendarmerie, currency, and diplomatic corps. Many of these still survive to this day.

    What we now know as the Vatican City State - over which the Pope has spiritual and temporal power both as Bishop of Rome and head-of-state - existed both de jure and de facto as the Papal States; the Lateran Concords of 1929 recognised its de jure sovereignty in the context of its relations with the Kingdom of Italy.
  13. LancePrivateJones

    LancePrivateJones LE Book Reviewer

  14. Well what do you expect it to be?

    The Church was created to continue the Roman Empire when it's political status began to crumble in the C5th.

    It's hardly surprising that there are huge Roman influences in it (note Roman not Italian!)