The USS Liberty, Zionism and the birth(???) of Israel

#1
Ever since I heard of the vicious attack on the USS Liberty on 8 June 1967 and the loss of life onboard, I've been very interested in the affair. Even via the internet, it's proved very difficult to obtain any relevant information that wasn't, in some way, orientated towards the "official" explanation. However, the “official" explanation of "mistaken identity" just never seemed to be enough to justify such a ruthless and precise attack over such a long period and with the weapons used. Here’s what Wiki has to say about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

Even the lightly critical and heavily sanitised Wiki version palls before this article by Alan Hart:

http://www.alanhart.net/the-liberty-affair-and-the-problem-with-the-truth-of-history/

Alan Hart also wrote the following article about the birth of the nation of Israel, which, sort of in my view, validates his USS Liberty piece. In it (the article) he argues that the foundation of the state of Israel was much more a product of a unilateral declaration of state by the Jews than of an "official" UN decision, and, as such, is illegal, and thus invalid, anyway. However judge for yourselves:

http://www.alanhart.net/celebrating-the-denial-of-ethnic-cleansing/

The survivors of the USS Liberty attack (who were never meant to survive in the first place – see the cold-blooded machine-gunning of lifeboats/rafts - would like to obtain some closure on why their shipmates were unnecessarily killed and injured to further the political aims of the US and Israel. I believe they're owed something. I believe they’re owed an honest explanation.

MsG
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
Bugsy said:
Ever since I heard of the vicious attack on the USS Liberty on 8 June 1967 and the loss of life onboard, I've been very interested in the affair. Even via the internet, it's proved very difficult to obtain any relevant information that wasn't, in some way, orientated towards the "official" explanation. However, the “official" explanation of "mistaken identity" just never seemed to be enough to justify such a ruthless and precise attack over such a long period and with the weapons used. Here’s what Wiki has to say about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

Even the lightly critical and heavily sanitised Wiki version palls before this article by Alan Hart:

http://www.alanhart.net/the-liberty-affair-and-the-problem-with-the-truth-of-history/

Alan Hart also wrote the following article about the birth of the nation of Israel, which, sort of in my view, validates his USS Liberty piece. In it (the article) he argues that the foundation of the state of Israel was much more a product of a unilateral declaration of state by the Jews than of an "official" UN decision, and, as such, is illegal, and thus invalid, anyway. However judge for yourselves:

http://www.alanhart.net/celebrating-the-denial-of-ethnic-cleansing/

The survivors of the USS Liberty attack (who were never meant to survive in the first place – see the cold-blooded machine-gunning of lifeboats/rafts - would like to obtain some closure on why their shipmates were unnecessarily killed and injured to further the political aims of the US and Israel. I believe they're owed something. I believe they’re owed an honest explanation.

MsG
No more than those British soldiers who were murdered by the Irgun - the leader of which was an immigrant and had no more right to be there than the British, or the Turkish before them, or the Romans before them, or even the Arabs (apart from the nomadic ones of course).

The Jewish state was founded by terrorists operating directly against the wishes of the UN and the British. The jews were bombing hotels and mass-murdering in Palestine before the Arabs did.

The exact reasoning behind the attack on the US Liberty remain a bit clouded, but the suspicion on the Israeli side seemed to have been that the the USS Liberty was being used to pass intel to Israel's neighbours - it was an eavesdropping ship after all.

Israel attacked with the idea of sinking it with all hands lost so they could deny it, or possibly blame it on the arabs - hence them jamming the signals from the ship and attacking the survivors in the boats.
 
#3
Bugsy said:
Ever since I heard of the vicious attack on the USS Liberty on 8 June 1967 and the loss of life onboard, I've been very interested in the affair.
MsG
Is that because you're in Hamas :?
 
#5
Spanny said:
Bugsy said:
Ever since I heard of the vicious attack on the USS Liberty on 8 June 1967 and the loss of life onboard, I've been very interested in the affair.
MsG
Is that because you're in Hamas :?
joey_deacons_lad said:
Oh jeez louise another lets all look at Bugsy thread
Marvellous indeed! Two lally responses that in no way addressed the subject of the thread.

Hey, fellas! If you’ve nothing to say on the theme, then just keep yer gobs shut, eh?

MsG
 
#6
Bugsy said:
Spanny said:
Bugsy said:
Ever since I heard of the vicious attack on the USS Liberty on 8 June 1967 and the loss of life onboard, I've been very interested in the affair.
MsG
Is that because you're in Hamas :?
joey_deacons_lad said:
Oh jeez louise another lets all look at Bugsy thread
Marvellous indeed! Two lally responses that in no way addressed the subject of the thread.

Hey, fellas! If you’ve nothing to say on the theme, then just keep yer gobs shut, eh?

MsG
Fair enough i'll do that when you give a straight answer to questions that challenge your viewpoint instead of brushing them off with a false air of intellectual superiority. Deal?
 
#7
joey_deacons_lad said:
Fair enough i'll do that when you give a straight answer to questions that challenge your viewpoint instead of brushing them off with a false air of intellectual superiority. Deal?
Address the subject or just fück off, fella! Who the fück are you to lay down rules here? Nobody's in the least interested in your pathetic battle to establish your "superiority" on ARRSE. Least of all me.Get real, buddy!

MsG
 
#8
Was in the Med when the Six day war kicked off, we we were patrolling off Bhengazi when the attack on the Liberty happened. There was a general warning for the whole of the Eastern Med to stay away but the Liberty sailed into it. The Americans did the same thing again when the USS Pueblo pushed its luck with the North Koreans in 1968.
We were berthed near the drydock that the Liberty was eventually towed into and were amazed that it was still afloat.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#9
Bugsy said:
joey_deacons_lad said:
Fair enough i'll do that when you give a straight answer to questions that challenge your viewpoint instead of brushing them off with a false air of intellectual superiority. Deal?
Address the subject or just fück off, fella! Who the fück are you to lay down rules here? Nobody's in the least interested in your pathetic battle to establish your "superiority" on ARRSE. Least of all me.Get real, buddy!

MsG
Well, he's more entertaining than you and doesn't tell as many lies. Live and let live, eh?
 
#10
Is it anymore of a tragedy than the USS Vincennes shooting down an airliner by "mistake" in 1988,with the loss of 290 passengers and crew,including a number of children,but then they weren't American were they?

What was an American Spy Ship,doing in the area during the Six Day War? has that come out in the enquiry?

Another conspiracy theory,shite happens,end off. :roll:
 
#11
Sixty said:
Bugsy said:
joey_deacons_lad said:
Fair enough i'll do that when you give a straight answer to questions that challenge your viewpoint instead of brushing them off with a false air of intellectual superiority. Deal?
Address the subject or just fück off, fella! Who the fück are you to lay down rules here? Nobody's in the least interested in your pathetic battle to establish your "superiority" on ARRSE. Least of all me.Get real, buddy!

MsG
Well, he's more entertaining than you and doesn't tell as many lies. Live and let live, eh?
If I may interpret that so that everybody can understand your post in the right light, Sixydotfool:

"I dislike this Bugsy fella extremely, because I feel inferior to him (whether that's true or not). So if I can in any way contribute to others seeing him as inferior (mainly to me), then I will."

About right, Sixtdotfool?

By the way, another totally selfish and entirely self-serving post that added nothing at all to the thread. Do get a grip, fella!

MsG
 
#12
cant change the past

it was in the wrong place at the wrong time despite warnings.

any ship entering a war zone be it a spy ship or not knows its entering into trouble
 
#13
At a website of USS Liberty survivors, Liberty survivors linky there is quite a bit of information.

As a septic sort this incident still bothers me years later. IIRC, the casualties on Liberty were about twice the number of casualties as the USS Cole attack.

My government did try to play down the incident. The captain of Liberty was awarded the Medal of Honor. Most MoH awards are done at the White House by the President. Captain McGonagle received his medal in a small ceremony at Washington Navt Yard from an Admiral.

I have no idea of the truth of this but there have been claims that the cause of the incident was an Israeli belief that Liberty had intercepted communication from Isreal discussing whether to kill POW's.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#14
Bugsy said:
If I may interpret that so that everybody can understand your post in the right light, Sixydotfool:

"I dislike this Bugsy fella extremely, because I feel inferior to him (whether that's true or not). So if I can in any way contribute to others seeing him as inferior (mainly to me), then I will."

About right, Sixtdotfool?
Not awfully. Let me put this plainly: you're a liar and a fantasist. You thrive on seeking attention. You are in short, a troll. No?
 
#15
RoofRat said:
Is it anymore of a tragedy than the USS Vincennes shooting down an airliner by "mistake" in 1988,with the loss of 290 passengers and crew,including a number of children,but then they weren't American were they?

What was an American Spy Ship,doing in the area during the Six Day War? has that come out in the enquiry?

Another conspiracy theory,shite happens,end off. :roll:
Which would be somewhat acceptable if they hadn't gone on to brass up the lifeboats. That is just not cricket. And the Israelis were well aware of the nationality - and neutrality - of the ship.

Liberty was free to do whatever the hell it wanted in international waters.

Would the US have swept it under the carpet if any country other than Israel had been responsible?
 
#16
Lemme Guess, Bugsy's entire family was slotted by Sayeret Matkal in Londonderry in 1975 while dressed as the Duke of Glendons Light Infantry. They then attacked the Liberty and flew drones into the World Trade Center whilst dressed as Lizard Overlords under the direction of Dick Cheney

Have I missed anything?
 
#17
We had the impression that the Yanks as per normal had poked their noses in where it wasn't wanted. Where ever they went they thought they owned the place and could ride roughshod over anyone and anything who stood in their way. They ignored all the warnings and they payed a heavy price. Why do you think our two RN ships stayed out of the area.
 
#18
Bugsy there was a thread about this on Rum Ration a while back, unfortunately I don't have a link, but it must be on the History forum somewhere.
 
#19
DavidBOC said:
I have no idea of the truth of this but there have been claims that the cause of the incident was an Israeli belief that Liberty had intercepted communication from Isreal discussing whether to kill POW's.
Isreal where's that ?
 
#20
Bugsy said:
their shipmates were unnecessarily killed and injured to further the political aims of the US and Israel. I believe they're owed something. I believe they’re owed an honest explanation.
Am a bit cynical about Israeli conduct in this incident, but why would the political aims of the US require a US ship to be sunk?
 

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