The US Navy is failing to prepare recruits for madness of shipborne life - lessons for RN?

One of the critical assumptions in CM was that a portion of preventive and corrective maintenance would be moved ashore. In 2005, Shore Intermediate Maintenance Activities (SIMAs) began to close, and by 2006, the Regional Support Organizations (RSOs) were disestablished. Work was pushed back to the now undermanned ships. Moreover, there was an assumption that the TyCom would have a pool of personnel with the right qualifications and skills available to augment the ships’ crews when unplanned losses were experienced. That pool of persons never materialized.

In 2005, Vice Admiral LaFleur was relieved by Vice Admiral Terrance Etnyre, who continued and even expanded on this mode of thinking. It was he, for example, who oversaw the implementation of the executive officer (XO)/commanding officer (CO) fleet-up program, despite protests that this would take post-department head officers away from ships for periods ranging from five to six years prior to command at sea. “Further, the surplus of junior officers aboard ships (DDGs now have 32 officers vice 21 officers ten year ago) combined with the downward trend of operating time in post-deployment sustainment phase means that the officers may actually be less proficient at SWO skills (e.g., shiphandling even though they’ve had more sea duty). . . . [C]ommanding officers have stated that they are challenged in giving the newest ensigns meaningful responsibilities and adequate conning time.”


From: What Happened To Our Surface Forces? | U.S. Naval Institute
 

Sarastro

LE
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I wrote a draft that was significantly more explicit about people willfully falsifying SITREPs, but I hit the problem that we don't have the stats to prove the problem to the same extent as in the US (and we don't quite have the same issue with numbers of mandated training days) so I couldn't put forward enough evidence to make the paper viable.
I proof read a similarly themed article that an infantry officer friend wrote for BAR back in 2013-2014ish, which was very good. Used the example of delivering the mandated V&S MATT training while quietly lying or fudging how MATTs themselves are delivered. It got turned down on grounds I forget, but which translated as "too controversial". I'd be quite surprised if anything like that was published in the BAR, the editorial line took a deliberately Pravda-with-amateur-historians turn after Richards and Newton left, unless it has changed in the last two years.

On a side note I'm a little perplexed to see your love for it. Several times on here I've made exactly that argument about the pernicious effect of small, daily failures of integrity and moral courage among the British officer corps, and suggested that it is pervasive across the Army, and seem to remember you brushing it off. Do I remember wrong? Pg 26-27 in particular could almost be word for word about the effect of hypocrisy. I believe there is a direct line from that to Fill Your Boots, morale bottoming out and other mainstays of current Army problems, because it weakens the glue that holds all the rest together - as the paper says, when people see deception in one area, it reduces trust in all areas.

I probably couldn't find the discussion if I tried, but I remember a metaphor about the similarities of moral and physical courage. Nobody just comes of age at 16 and marches off to win a VC. They get fit, they do basic, they learn to deal with being tired, they learn to deal with small hurts in the field, they learn to deal with being exhausted, they learn to deal with being more tired, and more hurt, and more exhausted, each one is a step forward beyond what they could do before. Then one day on ops, all of those things - that might have been insurmountable when they first did them but are now routine - are the foundation that mean they can take the next step charge a machine gun position, because they are no longer limited by fitness, or hurt, or exhaustion. That's how seemingly insurmountable things happen, a bit at a time. Physical courage isn't a trait, it's a muscle: it grows stronger with use. Moral courage is exactly the same. If officers routinely compromise on it and never exercise the muscle, it will fail when it is really put under strain.

That article talks about "dishonesty", the British Army talks about "perception", the story is the same for both.
 
Has someone pointed out the Leonard Wong article yet?


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admittedly you need to train to push to the limits.
But if you routinely run at the MAX you've got no reserve when the shit really hits the fan and rather than producing lean mean killing machines ( or whatever the version on a ship is) you just knacker and piss people off and they leave.
 
Not sure why they were taking cocaine as yet. There does seem to be growing anecdotal evidence of submariners doing this as it is the only way to get out of the Service.
I'm not a crabmariner, I was a skimmer. As you may know - they are two separate worlds. You could do a whole 22yr career withiout even speaking to a submariner though.

I know a tame submariner. The assertion that crabmariners are snorting coke in order to fail CDT and get discharged was met with, and I quote: "bollocks".
 
I'm not a crabmariner, I was a skimmer. As you may know - they are two separate worlds. You could do a whole 22yr career withiout even speaking to a submariner though.

I know a tame submariner. The assertion that crabmariners are snorting coke in order to fail CDT and get discharged was met with, and I quote: "bollocks".

Old man was a submariner, sneaky boats, back then, it was Export lunatic soup that they drank like water - lived hard, played harder..
Some observations he made about their world…
"we don't train for war, the minute we leave the wall, we're at war"
"On a boat, at any second, anyone aboard can make a mistake that kills everyone aboard"
Had a sea ride on an O Boat - FTN, waaaay too intense.
And that I suspect is the current malaise in the sundodger world - too few boats being run VERY hot.
 
Old man was a submariner, sneaky boats, back then, it was Export lunatic soup that they drank like water - lived hard, played harder..
Some observations he made about their world…
"we don't train for war, the minute we leave the wall, we're at war"
"On a boat, at any second, anyone aboard can make a mistake that kills everyone aboard"
Had a sea ride on an O Boat - FTN, waaaay too intense.
And that I suspect is the current malaise in the sundodger world - too few boats being run VERY hot.
I honestly could not comment, I'm an ex-matelot but the submariner world is as alien to be as is the...(Ahem) RAF.

I do know they have fewer "unsuitable" slip through the net though, and they are very professional.

Submariners were a golden egg for the slappers in Guzz - extra pay and always away.
 
admittedly you need to train to push to the limits.
But if you routinely run at the MAX you've got no reserve when the shit really hits the fan and rather than producing lean mean killing machines ( or whatever the version on a ship is) you just knacker and piss people off and they leave.
Sleek gray messenger of death = Surface ship. Diane Abbot = Submarine. (Fat Black Harbinger of Doom...) ;)
 
Sleek gray messenger of death = Surface ship. Diane Abbot = Submarine. (Fat Black Harbinger of Doom...) ;)
HMS RACIST has a nice ring to it actually...

"When I was on the Racist,,,"
 

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