The US is a Nation Engaged in What Will be a Long War

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by whitecity, Feb 4, 2006.

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  1. See here:

    Does this echo what Britain went through during the 19th and early 20th Century? As the great imperial power, we seemed to be fighting an endless stream of tribal insurrections, independance movements, and battles with other 'great powers' nibbling at the fringes - all round the world. The US's current war seems to fighting pretty much the same people, over the same land, and already they are expecting to be in for the long haul....
  2. This was sent to me from the States it makes interesting reading

    Subject: When World War III Started

    This is not very long, but very informative You have to read the catalogue
    of events in this brief piece. Then, ask yourself how anyone can take the
    position that all we have to do is bring our troops home from Iraq, sit
    back, reset the snooze alarm, go back to sleep, and no one will ever bother
    us again. In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979...
    that alarm has been ringing for years

    US Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air Station,
    Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is
    an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this
    action is so necessary.


    That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more
    than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it
    should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been
    buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll
    over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

    It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a
    religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked
    and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright
    attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most
    powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this
    sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25

    America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and
    had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had
    to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The
    ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's
    inability to deal with terrorism.

    America's military had been decimated and down sized/right sized since the
    end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly
    organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was
    doomed from the start.

    Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and
    killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her
    citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

    In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven
    into the US Embassy compound in Beirut When it explodes, it kills 63 people.
    The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

    Then just six short months later in 1983 a large truck heavily laden down
    with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine
    Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America
    mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

    Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is
    driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.

    The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the
    gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

    Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a
    restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

    Then in August 1985 a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the
    main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the
    snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually

    Fifty-nine days later in 1985 a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked
    and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the
    passenger list and executed.

    The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when
    they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic
    bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in1988, killing

    Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still
    trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

    The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.

    The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two
    CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley,

    The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested
    after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground
    parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are
    killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of
    war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

    Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in
    Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

    A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35
    yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys
    the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over
    500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that
    America does not respond decisively.

    They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US
    embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.. These attacks were planned with precision.
    They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to

    The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12
    October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded
    killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we
    sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

    And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans
    think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong
    they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose
    to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

    In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high
    officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But
    if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see
    exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the
    National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since

    The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we
    have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as a
    people decide enough is enough. America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act
    decisively now. America has been changed forever.. ! We have to be ready to
    pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We
    cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll
    over and go back to sleep.

    After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "... it seems all
    we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to
    disseminate to terrorists around the world.

    Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage,
    political or militarily, to address what so many who preceded him didn't
    have the backbone to do, both Democrat and Republican. This is not a
    political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an AMERICAN
    thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to

    If you believe in this please forward it to as many people as you can
    especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class
    and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action. If you
    don't believe it, just delete it and go back to sleep.
  3. Absolute b0llocks. The conversation about how to approach the problem is entirely political, and his entire statement is a reflection of that fact. In it's most basic sense, politics and policy is about the articulation of a government's aims and objectives and the means chosen to achieve them.

    The man evidently has no idea of history or strategic context. He, like so many others, seems to see "the terrorists" as this monolithic group who have no other purpose than to kill Westerners because they enjoy it. The fact is that the laundry list of attacks he mentions was conducted by different groups, with different purposes and as such, his oversimplified horseshit that is intended to turn the rest of the country (or world if you consider the wider audience and the philosophy of "you're with us or against us") into subservient drones, is counterproductive.
  4. While you might disagree with a war against islamofasicism the reality is that the US is waging a global war against extremists who do not approve of our way of life. They believe that their goal is to spread their brand of islam. Again you dont have to agree, but it doesnt matter because thats what they think, thats what they have written.
  5. Really? In that case, you'd better hop across to Langley and explain that to CIA and then bus yourself over to Ft Meade and talk to NSA, because they're not sure that they are at war.

    Another way to look at it is that they do not not approve of the way in which the US and the West intrudes on their way of life. (IIRC, the caliphate they have in mind does not extend as far as Denver.)
  6. The CIA and NSA know we are at war. They just have a few traitors in their midst that would rather reveal secret operations at the expense of the american people. The caliphate would extend as far as they can. Look at the growing minorities of muslims living in Europe. With higher birth rates in time they may well become the majority.
  7. There have always been extremists of one sort or another. What the Septics don't seem to be able to comprehend is that their breathless arrogance, when confronted with cultures different to their own, leads to members of those cultures resenting them.
    The fact is, the more the Septics try to spread "the good word" about the dubious advantages of their way of life around the world, the more (as in amount) people will come to resent them. So the "ongoing war against extremists" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    Given the choice, I suppose many cultures wouldn't have many difficulties absorbing some of the aspects of the American way of life over the course of time. What tends to upset the locals a tad is when they have if forced down their Gregorys with the business-end of an M16!
    The T.W.A.T that the Septics more or less single-handedly brought upon themselves will continue until they realise that diplomacy is not 5.56 mm in diameter.

  8. Not many cultures bombed our embassies in africa, or bombed a US warship in port or flew planes into the WTC killing almost 3000 people.
  9. fcuk the east, pull everything out, research and perfect nucular fusion and mine the asteroid belt, and colonise mars
  10. As far as banjoing the WTC is concerned, most of the lads were Saudis. But extremists. There's no way the Septics can top all the people they consider extremists, because there will always be others driven to extremism by their blundering actions.
    So because a bunch of Saudis decided to alter the Manhatten skyline, America charged into Iraq (instead of Saudi-Arabia) and murdered something like 100,000 to 150,000 Iraqis and maimed many thousands more. In a country that demonstrably had nothing to do with 11th September. What breathtaking logic!
    And then the Septics genuinely wonder why "nobody really understands what they're trying to do". :D

  11. T6, why not stop for a moment and think about the cause of the Iranian Revolution. When the US backed the coup that ousted Mossadegh and confirmed the Shah as an absolute ruler in the old style an awful lot of Iranians suffered as a result - ever heard of SAVAK ?

    And, funnily enough, having had a dictator imposed on them from outside the Iranians weren't very happy. Of course at that point they weren't allowed to be by the US as the Shah was "one of our b@stards" as far as the US was concerned. Democracy is the end point, unless it deposes a dictator deemed useful by the US.

    And so after a few decades the Iranians revolted - "let freedom ring !". Of course as is so often the way they were lead by extremists - because that's what people look for in extreme times. The Ayotollahs scrambled to the top of the pile and assumed control and lead to Iran as we see today. If I was Iranian and had suffered for decades under the Shah I'd have nailed the US embassy staff to the walls, so getting p!ssy because they were taken hostage is a touch unnecessary. What on earth else did you expect ?

    And then the US used Saddam - another butcher - to punish the Iranians by proxy. Then the US armed and trained the Taliban to give the USSR a spanking.

    The US created the enemy they now face. Deal with it. And here's a hint, try avoiding the methods that created them in the first place.
  12. Everybody that voted for Bush knew that they were voting for war;Most europeans reckoned on 6 months before either Bush attacked himself,or ignored the threats and waited for an attack;He either chose or had to accept the latter option,leaving him the cozy choice of reacting and not instigating the wars he has started.

    Get used to sending troops all over the world because this will be a long war;You wanted it George,you got it ,but do you know how to WIN it?

    Maybe if American Politicians started playing chess, they would realise that for every action there is a reaction,and that every victory must be paid for;Sadly, victory in war brings mostly bloodshed and suffering.

    Getting rid of Saddam was probably a good thing,and we can´t leave the people in a worse state than when he was Dictator.Winning the peace is much more difficult than `winning`the war.
  13. Not that blóody discredited Lancet survey again... :roll:

    I think that the terrorists have probably killed more Iraqis than the Americans...
  14. To read some of the posts on this site some people clearly believe that the state of the modern world is all the fault of the USA. People forget or have never learnt that many of the problems that exsist in the middle east date back to Turkish rule and later the British mandate post WW1. This country subdued a restless Iraq in the 1920's not by sending out friendly tommies to mix with the locals, we used the bomb and the bayonet and if a village or town cooperated they were left to to run their own affairs. If they stepped out of line the RAF would punish them. The result was that the nation of Iraq was forged - their combined fear and respect for the UK stopped them fighting each other.

    IMHO I think it is fair to say that the US in the middle east is now in a similar postition to Britain at that time. The Evening Standard 1934 published a mocking picture of Col. Blimp representing the British in India;

    "We should explain to the natives that British troops are there only to protect them from massacre, and if they don't accept that, then shoot them all down."

    The way I see it even if we could do everything those in the ME that hate the west would want, they would still hate us. The only Nazi's in the ME are not the Americans as one poster on this site alluded to in the past but the islamic extremists. You can take the liberal view that if we the west behaved ourselves they would actually all be very nice people and would turn their backs on Fundamentalism. The reality that is not going to happen, pandora's box has been opened and this evil form of islam is now entrenched in many countries we still consider allies. It matters not to them if you personally have no dislike of them. The fact that you are a non muslim and a person that lives a Western lifestyle is enough for them to hate with all the venom they have. Level headed Brit muslims I know cannot fathom these people and are embarssed by them the same way I am when I call my self a Christian and then watch a christian preacher from the bible belt spouting utter rubbish whilst doing his best Mick Jagger impression.

    Lets say tomorrow Bush's prayers are answered Canada comes up trumps with enough oil to supply the west for the next 50 years. We could turn our backs on that troublesome part of the world some would say. The fact would remain however that there would now be a belief system in place that hates the west enough to paper over the sunni-shia cracks enough to permit enough resources to pull together to build atomic bombs and delivery systems. We know this to be true regardless of the ill thought out case for Iraqs invasion.

    In short the strategic decisions being taken could be different/better but we are there for the long term like it or not, and this has been brewing before the US became the worlds only superpower.

    I'll get off my soapbox now.
  15. Stop jumping all over my Lancet survey, stoatman! :D :D :D

    You could very well be right in that insurgents have killed more Iraqis than the Septics. I personally consider it questionable. But the point is that none of the killings would've happened in the first place if the Septics hadn't invaded the country. I know you'll say that Saddam would've probably done the same, but that, again, is only conjecture.