The United States will be officially designating Antifa a domestic terrorist organization

Pre 1972 Ireland was a pretty good facimile of a Nazi State, right down to the Christian Brothers, the States de facto SS stormtruppen
But Iran is just misunderstood?
 
This rioting, looting and violence seems symptomatic of something....can't quite put my finger on it...

Oh yes - institutionalised racism in much of US law enforcement.

I'm not supporting it and I'm not saying it can't or won't happen here - but reading the riot act and opening fire will only make things worse.

I'm surprised you can't see that.
You have any statistics at all to back up that claim of "institutionalised racism" or are you just bleating what the telly told you
 
You have any statistics at all to back up that claim of "institutionalised racism" or are you just bleating what the telly told you
We get it here, if you're a white heterosexual male you might end up having to take the police to a tribunal if you're turned down on the grounds of race, sex, and sexual orientation
 
You have any statistics at all to back up that claim of "institutionalised racism" or are you just bleating what the telly told you
Here's something for you to 'bleat' about:

  • Police killed at least 104 unarmed black people in 2015, nearly twice each week.
  • Nearly 1 in 3 black people killed by police in 2015 were identified as unarmed, though the actual number is likely higher due to under-reporting
  • 36% of unarmed people killed by police were black in 2015 despite black people being only 13% of the U.S. population
  • Unarmed black people were killed at 5 x the rate of unarmed whites in 2015
  • Only 13 of the 104 cases in 2015 where an unarmed black person was killed by police resulted in officer(s) being charged with a crime. 4 of these cases have ended in a mistrial or charges against the officer(s) being dropped and 4 cases are still awaiting trial or have a trial underway. Only 4 cases (Matthew Ajibade, Eric Harris, Paterson Brown Jr., and William Chapman) have resulted in convictions of officers involved, with a fifth case (Walter Scott) resulting in the officer pleading guilty.
  • Of the 4 cases where the officer(s) involved have been convicted and sentenced, none were sentenced to serve more than 4 years in prison. Only 1 of 2 officers convicted for their involvement in Matthew Ajibade's death received jail time. He was sentenced to 1 year in jail and allowed to serve this time exclusively on weekends. The officer who killed Paterson Brown was sentenced to only 3 months in jail. Deputy Bates, who killed Eric Harris, was sentenced to 4 years in prison and Officer Cobb, who killed William Chapman, was sentenced to 2.5 years in prison. Officer Slager, who killed Walter Scott and pled guilty, has yet to be sentenced
I expect you think that police officer was just checking Floyd's carotid pulse with his knee for eight minutes to be sure of his health.
 

Polyester

Old-Salt
liberal-conservative, both lower case, a bit of back and forth depending on the subject.
Freedom of choice, collaboration and the individual, Freedom of market and commerce under minimal government and absolute sovereignty. One size does not fit all.
I treat the far left and far right with equal prejudice, no time for racism of any skin colour.
The concept of socialism doesn't wash with me while humans control it, ie maybe inj another Millenium.
I believe the UK needs a constitution written for the 21st century along the lines of the American one.

So call it what you will, I would say centre if the subjects were weighed on scales.

Your avatar is an establishment nonce mate, put some black eyes on him or a P on his forehead...please.
Pretty similar to me in some respects then. Fair enough.

Interesting that you should mention my avatar. Without going into it too deeply, he is a stark reminder of certain principles this country has casually abandoned. I’m definitely not celebrating him.
 
Here's something for you to 'bleat' about:

  • Police killed at least 104 unarmed black people in 2015, nearly twice each week.
  • Nearly 1 in 3 black people killed by police in 2015 were identified as unarmed, though the actual number is likely higher due to under-reporting
  • 36% of unarmed people killed by police were black in 2015 despite black people being only 13% of the U.S. population
  • Unarmed black people were killed at 5 x the rate of unarmed whites in 2015
  • Only 13 of the 104 cases in 2015 where an unarmed black person was killed by police resulted in officer(s) being charged with a crime. 4 of these cases have ended in a mistrial or charges against the officer(s) being dropped and 4 cases are still awaiting trial or have a trial underway. Only 4 cases (Matthew Ajibade, Eric Harris, Paterson Brown Jr., and William Chapman) have resulted in convictions of officers involved, with a fifth case (Walter Scott) resulting in the officer pleading guilty.
  • Of the 4 cases where the officer(s) involved have been convicted and sentenced, none were sentenced to serve more than 4 years in prison. Only 1 of 2 officers convicted for their involvement in Matthew Ajibade's death received jail time. He was sentenced to 1 year in jail and allowed to serve this time exclusively on weekends. The officer who killed Paterson Brown was sentenced to only 3 months in jail. Deputy Bates, who killed Eric Harris, was sentenced to 4 years in prison and Officer Cobb, who killed William Chapman, was sentenced to 2.5 years in prison. Officer Slager, who killed Walter Scott and pled guilty, has yet to be sentenced
I expect you think that police officer was just checking Floyd's carotid pulse with his knee for eight minutes to be sure of his health.
Ok fine, but that is a generalized commentary which for all intents could be cherry-picked from a greater set of statistics, which is what I was asking for, not an opinion of statistics seen through the lens of race.

Where are they from, 2015 by the looks of it, when a black President was at the end of his tenure.

I'm not denying it happens, Did you outrage when all the other shades of human got killed by police or are you just selecting only black people?

I'm going to dig up some FBI stats, English ones too for comparison, racism is a small part of a bigger problem, if anything.

Also, this could thread drift.

And no I don't, It was murder. As he is going to be charged with
 
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US policing does seem to be inspired by the happy days (for them) of enforcing the Jim Crow laws. You would have thought that they would have got over the demise of segregation by now...
'Jim crow' laws?

I have worked with LE and some of the other posters here have way more experience - to be honest running a business has taught me a lot of about the racial break down/peculiarities of the U.S.

A few points...

1)The Amount of times we pulled someone over ( normally suspected DUI) and I hardly ever saw the driver before hand... The black drivers would be the ones with multiplying offenses.

ex: DUI with out of date tags, DUI with drugs on view, DUI with open containers visible,DUI and probation, DUI with overloaded occupants and arrest warrants.. you get the idea. Not that we didn't catch people of all ethnicity, but the blacks almost always had more baggage.

If someone is in L.E and see's that day in and day out... they become jaded and expect all black suspects to be the same.

2) I hire blue collar workers and I have hired probably over 400 or so in the 15 years ( and this is in Long beach - very diverse pool of applicants). I bet I have only got applications from 10 black applicants and half of them had been in prison for drugs/weapon offenses. Only one lasted past a week and he disappeared ( found out later he was arrested for selling crack). I dont see any strong work ethic. Look at any construction site and tell me how many Blacks are there.

3)They seem to attract L.E - just a day or two ago I walk past a car and smell weed - turn around and a black guy is rolling a 'fattie', as he smokes one with his windows down. I look at the passenger seat - half full bottle of liquor in a Daytime supermarket parking lot. Before this COVID crap I used to run on the beach during my lunch and we would see the black city workers smoking pot and drinking a huge beer at lunch. Every day.

4) Several cops I have interacted with (as a kind of CSO position), as a law abiding shooter, as a reporting party to a crime and as a motorcycle rider - were absolute cocks. Cops are everywhere here ( until you need one) and given the number of cops vs number that shouldn't be in L.E - its no surprise we have these incidents. Some seem to think its a warzone, some think its a job to give out as many tickets in an abrupt manner as possible and many are fine.
 
(...) As an aside, I am surprised that those symbols are still around in the Capitol because of their later association with Mussolini et al.

I doubt many Americans know the Fasces are there, or what they mean, or that "fascism" comes from their use by Mussolini who also revived the use of Roman symbols of state power. It's just as well, as it would be stupid to insist that they be removed because of modern misconceptions.

However, I still remember having to explain the use of the Swastika on a Hindu Community Centre in Birmingham to my other half as she was really quite shocked to see it displayed so openly.
I've got a set of early volumes of Kipling's works with swastikas on the covers. Kipling's use of the symbol of course comes as a reference to India rather than German mystics.

I once stayed overnight in this town in Ontario when our truck broke down while passing through. It's a former gold mining town, but now a part of the town of Kirkland Lake.

 
Ok fine, but that is a generalized commentary which for all intents could be cherry-picked from a greater set of statistics, which is what I was asking for, not an opinion of statistics seen through the lens of race.

Where are they from, 2015 by the looks of it, when a black President was at the end of his tenure.

I'm not denying it happens, Did you outrage when all the other shades of human got killed by police or are you just selecting only black people?

I'm going to dig up some FBI stats, English ones too for comparison, racism is a small part of a bigger problem, if anything.

Also, this could thread drift.

And no I don't, It was murder. As he is going to be charged with
It’s partly from US Census data.

The whole point is the lack of proportionality - I don’t disagree that many of those black folks would fit the @SOCALSapper definition but, and here’s the thing, until you rectify the root causes of injustice then this problem isn’t going away and shooting people isn’t going to stop it.

Believe me, Trump is not man enough to deliver any kind of social equality in the US. Why? Because he neither understands it nor cares about it.
 
It’s partly from US Census data.

The whole point is the lack of proportionality - I don’t disagree that many of those black folks would fit the @SOCALSapper definition but, and here’s the thing, until you rectify the root causes of injustice then this problem isn’t going away and shooting people isn’t going to stop it.

Believe me, Trump is not man enough to deliver any kind of social equality in the US. Why? Because he neither understands it nor cares about it.
I have no idea how one man changes that.. or what he even changes.
 
It’s partly from US Census data.

The whole point is the lack of proportionality - I don’t disagree that many of those black folks would fit the @SOCALSapper definition but, and here’s the thing, until you rectify the root causes of injustice then this problem isn’t going away and shooting people isn’t going to stop it.

Believe me, Trump is not man enough to deliver any kind of social equality in the US. Why? Because he neither understands it nor cares about it.
Well, it looks like 8 years of Obama achieved nothing then?
Be interesting to compare the numbers between Bush and Obama, If it was bad then we must assume obama would have changed that, If it is worse, then we can only surmise Obama did nothing, A Black president.
Ill be digging up the FBI data, don't worry, this should be a good dig.




I got sent a link to a Carlson TV plug, hes going after both parties and Trump, wow.

 
It's interesting to note that while the modern day movie decided to present Starship Troopers as a form of parody, Heinlein was serious about the concept of full citizenship and the associated right to vote being limited to those who had somehow proven themselves to be loyal to the state and to the political ideas he approved of, and he wasn't alone in this.

The idea of "service means citizenship" (by which is meant the right to vote, as opposed to the right to reside) Heilein actually lifted from one of Kipling's stories. In Kipling story however this was secondary to his main intent which was to discuss the idea of army reform, as Kipling saw it. By this he meant promotion based on merit rather than family connections. Educated and ambitious men were to be drawn into the army for temporary service because it would be the means by which they would be granted the vote and they would also be held in high esteem by their fellow citizens. By this means they would replace those of "good family" who pursued an army career because it was the socially acceptable thing to do for their class.

The issue Heinlein was trying to address however was his concern, and the concern of others in the US, that the underclass would use their "unearned" right to vote to change the character of the US from that which he saw as being the "one true interpretation of the constitution" as laid down by the original writers of it. He of course was quite certain just what this "one true interpretation" of the constitution was. Some of this may sound a bit familiar if you have been listening to certain Americans.

Heinlein's solution was "service means citizenship", although "service" could include a temporary career in civil administration, not just military service. In this environment they would be indoctrinated in the "correct" way of thinking, and so could be trusted to vote for the "right" people in order to make sure that the "wrong" people didn't have power.

When Hollywood went to make a movie out of the book, they were faced with a bit of a dilemma. It was considered to be one of the classic science fiction novels, and so was expected to draw a good audience based on reputation alone, even of many of the viewers had never actually read the book. On the other hand, a straightforward translation of the book from novel to screen wouldn't sit well with much of the audience who had perhaps never actually read the book and that in turn might hurt ticket sales. The solution the movie makers took was to present the story as a parody. Hence the over the top plot and 1950s feel to it.

The issue being addressed though is one which is still a part of American political life. That is, how do you keep the "wrong" sort of people from voting while ensuring that the "right" sort of people show up at the polls.

I'll leave it a that for now. I think it's an interesting if odd bit of American society and politics however.
 
I doubt many Americans know the Fasces are there, or what they mean, or that "fascism" comes from their use by Mussolini who also revived the use of Roman symbols of state power. It's just as well, as it would be stupid to insist that they be removed because of modern misconceptions.


I've got a set of early volumes of Kipling's works with swastikas on the covers. Kipling's use of the symbol of course comes as a reference to India rather than German mystics.

I once stayed overnight in this town in Ontario when our truck broke down while passing through. It's a former gold mining town, but now a part of the town of Kirkland Lake.

Do they have to dial nein one one in an emergency?
 
The issue being addressed though is one which is still a part of American political life. That is, how do you keep the "wrong" sort of people from voting while ensuring that the "right" sort of people show up at the polls.
So Common Purpose would be the UK equivalent, where people are indoctrinated in the "correct" way of thinking and to act beyond authority when the government of the day isn't doing the "correct" thing
 
Ah, OK.
Personally I wouldn't equate Pre 1972 Ireland with a full blown Nazi State but I do agree that something was very wrong there during that time.
Dev seemed to have a bit of a soft spot for the bastards as well and he wasn't alone.
The Emergency Powers Act introduced at the start of the war only lapsed in 1976!

yes indeed, and the Church, to them, anything left wing or communist was the devil incarnate, see their full blooded support for Franco.

true, not a full blown NAZI state, but far too close to one for comfort. My Godfather was a Italian, his family switched sides in WWII, his old man got shot by the Germans, him, his sister and mother went off for a spot of Germanic hospitality in a camp. Ireland helpfully offered to rehome catholic refugees in 1945/46, as he put it, out of the frying pan, into the fire. Other than the language, he said there was little difference between a German camp, and the nice resettlement camp the Catholic Church ran in Ireland, even right down to rigorous segregation of males and females, bearings by Kapos, aka Brothers and Nuns, (black uniforms), no heating, and no arbiets, no food..

Ireland in the 50‘s and 60’s was a de facto Catholic ghetto run by Dev and the hard right Church.
 
right over that white sheet of yours...

i was referring to Your tumescent State at the sight of El Presidente getting all Judge Dredd
Hmmm Second time you mentioned noticing men getting erect, trying to tell us something about yourself? do you mince around like Walt Dirk Bogarde in SS Blouse and jackboots pretending to to be Max Aldorfer?


 
Hmmm Second time you mentioned noticing men getting erect, trying to tell us something about yourself? do you mince around like Walt Dirk Bogarde in SS Blouse and jackboots pretending to to be Max Aldorfer?


haven't you got an AR to cuddle tonight as you watch Donald I am the Law Dredd make a fool of himself?

ED9B92F2-48AA-4E58-856D-36951016041F.jpeg
 
Well, it looks like 8 years of Obama achieved nothing then?
Be interesting to compare the numbers between Bush and Obama, If it was bad then we must assume obama would have changed that, If it is worse, then we can only surmise Obama did nothing, A Black president.
Ill be digging up the FBI data, don't worry, this should be a good dig.




I got sent a link to a Carlson TV plug, hes going after both parties and Trump, wow.

Why are you bringing up Obama? If he couldn’t change anything it’s an even more damning indictment of the US system.
Hope you have a fulfilling dig for numbers that will show that the US law enforcement agencies own statistics show they aren’t racist. Independent eh?

I’m guessing you won’t be changing your mind about police racism either in the US or UK any time soon.
 
Hmmm Second time you mentioned noticing men getting erect, trying to tell us something about yourself? do you mince around like Walt Dirk Bogarde in SS Blouse and jackboots pretending to to be Max Aldorfer?


Could be worse it could be mincing around as Lucia
 
Communism, which ANITFA has always openly aligned themselves with killed more people than fascism managed, so I'm not sure how people came to the conclusion that they are the good guys.
Not unlike waving a Soviet banner around at a Labour gig = OK. Which is defininitely not like waving a Nazi flag at any other gig.
 

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