The UK/European migrant problem

Stan_Deesey

Old-Salt
I think the Dublin agreement has been dead in the water for a number of years now. Fat Angie ran a coach and horses through it by unilaterally suspending it in 2015 and inviting one million Doctors, Scientists and Engineers to the fatherland. When she found out that not all of them were qualified in those subjects and that many were illiterate goat herders, that she tried to pass the latter on to other countries like the UK which to Camerons eternal credit- told her to do one.

Since then countries like Italy and Spain who are are the first to greet the new Europeans on their shores have complained that under Dublin they get lumbered with the problem and they should be shared by all EU countries. Brussels has agreed with this and stated that in the interest of EU solidarity refugees should be shared amongst all member states. The problem is that Viktor, he says "no" and his fellow bad boys (now the British have gone) have told Brussels 'they can stick that idea up their arrse.' Brussels has hummed and hawed and we are in a sort of limbo at the moment.

I read at the time that it was part of Frau Merkel´s cunning plan: she wanted to cherry-pick the educated refugees for German citizenship, and send the goatherders and camel drivers to the rest of the EU.

David Cameron did not tell Frau Merkel to ´Do One´, or at least he didn´t use those exact words, as although he didn´t want to be part of a quota system, he still accepted 1000 Syrian refugees in 2015, and agreed to accept another 20 000 over the next five years, but why let the truth get in the way of a good story. :)

Hungary effectively withdrew from the Dublin Convention, but I heard that very few immigrants wanted to live in Hungary anyway, as parts of it are just as backward as the countries they came from, there are few opportunities there, and the locals are rabid racists. Those refugees who were given asylum in Hungary left for another EU country as soon as they could get out.
 
I read at the time that it was part of Frau Merkel´s cunning plan: she wanted to cherry-pick the educated refugees for German citizenship, and send the goatherders and camel drivers to the rest of the EU.

David Cameron did not tell Frau Merkel to ´Do One´, or at least he didn´t use those exact words, as although he didn´t want to be part of a quota system, he still accepted 1000 Syrian refugees in 2015, and agreed to accept another 20 000 over the next five years, but why let the truth get in the way of a good story. :)

Hungary effectively withdrew from the Dublin Convention, but I heard that very few immigrants wanted to live in Hungary anyway, as parts of it are just as backward as the countries they came from, there are few opportunities there, and the locals are rabid racists. Those refugees who were given asylum in Hungary left for another EU country as soon as they could get out.
Indeed.

And in Hungary they found they had to work for a living.
 
David Cameron did not tell Frau Merkel to ´Do One´, or at least he didn´t use those exact words, as although he didn´t want to be part of a quota system, he still accepted 1000 Syrian refugees in 2015, and agreed to accept another 20 000 over the next five years, but why let the truth get in the way of a good story.
He refused to take part in Merkel's quota scheme that she tried to foist on the UK. Cameron refused and said that he would take 20,000 refugees over five years direct from refugee camps under the UN Ressetlement scheme. But why let the truth get in the way of a good story eh.
 

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On ROPS
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I read at the time that it was part of Frau Merkel´s cunning plan: she wanted to cherry-pick the educated refugees for German citizenship, and send the goatherders and camel drivers to the rest of the EU.

David Cameron did not tell Frau Merkel to ´Do One´, or at least he didn´t use those exact words, as although he didn´t want to be part of a quota system, he still accepted 1000 Syrian refugees in 2015, and agreed to accept another 20 000 over the next five years, but why let the truth get in the way of a good story. :)

Hungary effectively withdrew from the Dublin Convention, but I heard that very few immigrants wanted to live in Hungary anyway, as parts of it are just as backward as the countries they came from, there are few opportunities there, and the locals are rabid racists. Those refugees who were given asylum in Hungary left for another EU country as soon as they could get out.

Orbans fascist state seems to be LittleBoats people’s ‘Proper Engerland’ wet dream
 
Hungary effectively withdrew from the Dublin Convention, but I heard that very few immigrants wanted to live in Hungary anyway, as parts of it are just as backward as the countries they came from, there are few opportunities there, and the locals are rabid racists. Those refugees who were given asylum in Hungary left for another EU country as soon as they could get out.
So they weren't in fear for their safety and running from persecution. They just wanted somwwhere nicer with all the benefits.
 
No, they're all doctors, dentists, nurses and lorry drivers, they are the epitome of work ethic and we should be importing millions of them. Just like we did from 96 onwards, and that's worked out just brilliantly.

Tony Blair Walt!
 
No, they're all doctors, dentists, nurses and lorry drivers, they are the epitome of work ethic and we should be importing millions of them. Just like we did from 96 onwards, and that's worked out just brilliantly.

Tony Blair Walt!
 

endure

GCM
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Julia has obviously read SOLAS 74
 
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It's why a lot of these small boats carry a small child and a woman on board so if the French coast guard or navy boats try and intercept them they can threaten to throw those overboard .
Surely this is a crime to threaten to murder somebody. The threatener must face charges of attempted murder in a French court, and serve a long sentence in a French prison. Then get deported to wherever they came from. By then the war/famine/plague they originally fled will be over.
 
Surely this is a crime to threaten to murder somebody. The threatener must face charges of attempted murder in a French court, and serve a long sentence in a French prison. Then get deported to wherever they came from. By then the war/famine/plague they originally fled will be over.
I'd be very interested to see if there's any evidence of this ever happening, or is it just the usual bollocks from the lefty twats who would see this country wrecked.
 
You may disagree with it, but there´s not much that you can do. The EU put in place a system for preventing migrants from making asylum claims in more than one EU-member country. I don´t know how effective this system was in practice, but we elected to leave it.

The 'system' was totally ineffective in practice, a total LOOB.
And has probably been so since a couple of days after it was drafted in 2003.
Whether we are in or out of the EU, they certainly never enforced it either and still don't.
Everybody involved in it knows it, games it and takes their chances.
Take this case, read it and explain to the rest of the class where it all went wrong please.





Asylum shopping, pure and simple.
 
One of the aims of the Dublin Agreement was to prevent migrants making asylum claims in multiple EU countries, and thus save on time, costs and paperwork. The idea was that if a migrant had a claim rejected by, for example, Germany, then he couldn´t just move to another EU country, and claim asylum there.
Well that failed miserably. It might have helped if the Schengen countries had a standardised view of asylum, but in practice that didn’t and hasn’t happened And it leads to confusion between economic migrants and Asylum issues. In some countries asylum is dependent on finding work and is time limited. Conflictingly that acceptance that those seeking asylum but not claiming it in any given country is supposed to be treated with tolerance for illegal access, which is a complete non sequitur, because any action within any given country is supposed to be legal. , that is the rule of law. What the EU has never dealt with is the thorny problem of how they overcome what to with people who have been refused asylum.
 

Stan_Deesey

Old-Salt
Well that failed miserably. It might have helped if the Schengen countries had a standardised view of asylum, but in practice that didn’t and hasn’t happened And it leads to confusion between economic migrants and Asylum issues. In some countries asylum is dependent on finding work and is time limited. Conflictingly that acceptance that those seeking asylum but not claiming it in any given country is supposed to be treated with tolerance for illegal access, which is a complete non sequitur, because any action within any given country is supposed to be legal. , that is the rule of law. What the EU has never dealt with is the thorny problem of how they overcome what to with people who have been refused asylum.

I never claimed it was a success. I just stated it´s aims and the idea behind it. It wasn´t me who drafted the agreement FFS!

Didn´t we use the agreement to return some immigrants to the continent prior to last year? did we get anything out of it?
 
I never claimed it was a success. I just stated it´s aims and the idea behind it. It wasn´t me who drafted the agreement FFS!

Didn´t we use the agreement to return some immigrants to the continent prior to last year? did we get anything out of it?
Sorry not having a pop at you, just the frustration of having the frustration to deal with, largely because of the do gooders signing up to the processes.
 
Once again Mr Loughton is editing his conclusions to suit his message. The actualite - as outlined in the links below - is somewhat different and can be summarised as "yes, they are technically committing an offence, but that does not confer the legal right to return them immediately to France".

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/1195/pdf/

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/1242/pd

There's also a highly relevant exchange in the first evidence session (Q411) which outlines the differences between the obligations on Australia (which operates a turn-back policy for migrant craft) compared to the UK (subject to ECHR). In particular, the difference between the ability of lawyers to hold the respective governments - and by extension their enforcement officers - to account . . .

Received the attached today, in response to a number of requests sent this last week, for an answer as to why we are not/have not been, turning-round the inflatables and sending them back whence-they-came . . .

The whole letter is a standard "copy & paste" job, designed to cover all questions the Department might receive, but of particular interest is . . .

"Our New Plan for Immigration and the legislation to implement it will bring root and branch reform to the asylum system.

It is (already, now . . .), a criminal offence to enter or be in the UK illegally, carrying a maximum penalty of six
months in prison. We want to increase this penalty, and for the offence to cover the act of seeking illegal entry to the UK.

We will take tougher action against anyone who facilitates illegal entry, such as by piloting a small boat. We plan to increase the maximum sentence for people smuggling to life imprisonment.

Border Force will be granted additional powers to stop illegal entry, including
the ability to stop and redirect vessels at sea".

Note: Formatting, bold, underline and (italics), courtesy of your correspondent.
 
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Germany gives them 'tolerated status' despite Merkel making a big deal about deporting those who have no right to asylum.

The last time that I looked, (fairly recently) France had 120,000 asylum applications last year.
Only 20,000 were granted and there were also 20,000 deports of those refused.
So there are 80,000 refused persons wandering around who knows where, but generally gravitating towards Paris, elsewhere in Europe and the Channel Ports if I may hazard a guess?
Those are the known figures.
Now let's talk about the various nationalities that do not ever claim asylum, but just disappear into the black economy and work to pay off the costs of their transportation and maybe even send some money home.
They appear on no radar currently operated by HMG or the EU, before or after Brexit until someone stumbles upon them accidentally, a very rare event indeed.

Official figures actually mean nothing at all until the tide suddenly comes in very quickly in Morecambe Bay or it is a warm day in the back of a sealed container coming from Zeebrugge.

Small boats are a small problem, the big problem is elsewhere.
 
The last time that I looked, (fairly recently) France had 120,000 asylum applications last year.
Only 20,000 were granted and there were also 20,000 deports of those refused.
So there are 80,000 refused persons wandering around who knows where, but generally gravitating towards Paris, elsewhere in Europe and the Channel Ports if I may hazard a guess?
Those are the known figures.
Now let's talk about the various nationalities that do not ever claim asylum, but just disappear into the black economy and work to pay off the costs of their transportation and maybe even send some money home.
They appear on no radar currently operated by HMG or the EU, before or after Brexit until someone stumbles upon them accidentally, a very rare event indeed.

Official figures actually mean nothing at all until the tide suddenly comes in very quickly in Morecambe Bay or it is a warm day in the back of a sealed container coming from Zeebrugge.

Small boats are a small problem, the big problem is elsewhere.

Indeed... And much like the CSE problem another Labour Council at the heart.
 

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