the truth behind adventure training???

#1
So how much adventure training actually happens in the Army?


On the one hand I hear ARRSE stories of back-to-back tours (which is kinda good in a way) and barely enough time for military training... never mind expeditions...

but on the other hand I see websites such as this one for a very attractive RE expedition to the himalayas???

http://www.army.mod.uk/royalengineers/sport/mountain/exp/himalaya05/index.htm

this trip takes a whole month... are climbers limited to one big trip such as this in their entire career? or could you get involved in more trips?
 
#2
You have to loose the gag reflex and stick nose up someones arrse to even get a sniff

Only a commision can get anything better than mountain biking down the local boozer

Once while my unit was slogging it over the water, one of the Oc's voted to use units funds to pay for a Golf instructors course, for himself, as it would benefit the whole unit. 8O
Of course none of the lowely OR's on said committee had the spunk to point out what a blatant personal blag this was.......He then funked of and did said course while unit continued its tour.

No shame what so ever, and he was an ex ranker himself

I once did a med cover and stood at the bottom of a cliff while people better than me rock climbed

thats it for adventure training

a big fat ZERO after 6 1/2 years
 
#3
:D :D not in the slightest bit bitter :D :D

outside now and can arrange all my own "adventure training"

as I earn shed loads

Smug Smug Smug :lol:
 
#4
Ok, there should be more adventure training. Not just pissing about up some oft-trodden mountain but actually doing things to raise the profile of our armed forces. It is one of the best and this should be reflected in the expeditions.

What about climbing some unclimbed peaks and if there aren't any then I'm sure there are undiscorvered mountain ranges or rivers that have not yet been navigated from source to sea.

Christ, anything. Just make sure it's new. Run to the pole, starkers, whatever. If the media see it and are impressed then it can only be good.

Just my opinions..
 
#6
Very much depend where you are and if there is anyone in unit with specialist interests. As a diver I have been on a couple of Expeds and nearly got on a third - mind you that was partly coz was based with RAF at the time.....

My last unit organised a trek to the mountains of Peru and stressed the importance of ORs going on it. Officers were put on reserve list in preference to soldiers. In the end there was an even mix Officers and ORs.

I am also aware of a few other expeds being organised which have been opened up to soldiers but huge amounts of apathy from the ORs has resulted in an Officer topheavy group or in the trip being cancelled.

Another problem has been costs - to organise something out of the ordinary, as well as the travel and insurance that goes with it, costs a fortune. Access to funds is getting less and less and sponsorship can be very hard to come by.

Quiet often the reason AT isn't taken up is because there is no-one with the qualifications or ability to organise the trip - if there IS someone in the unit they should be encouraged to come up with the goods but it might help if ya offer to do some donkeywork for them!
 
#7
It does seem to be funny, but when the offers of places are put on orders the reaction is either one of "Sod it, what a waste of drinking time/Beer money" or "What's the point of applying, I'm not a mountaineer/sailor/parachutist ect, I'll never get a place."

All expeds should be better advertised, not just put on orders between lists of innoculations and the duties list. Also there should be more information and places for novices of AT persuits I mean it's okay putting all the people with experience on the exped, but if you don't bring new blood into them they'll get an elietest lable and just fade away.

I've managed to get on 2 expeds to the US and one to S Africa as well as the usual sailing trips and skiing trips available to all units in Germany. All of which were great experiences and you are daft not to get on at least one if you get the sniff of a place.
 
#8
Hm, led my first expedition when I was 12 and I still organise them when I can find the time. Would I be able to do a sort of 'new' expedition with the army? It need only be one, just so long as it is something that has never been done before.

There are unridden rapids in the Andes if anyone would be up for it. Though I'm not sure if there would be time alongside (hopefully) a commission in the army.

Damn my ignorance!

Anyone know if it would be possible?
 
#9
Organising expeds is becoming more and more difficult. Finding the time, money and authority is hard, and then the qualified instructors...

I have tried to organise expeds but have always failed, normally because it is impossible to fix calendars for a few weeks ahead for myself. To garuentee months for myself and others is a farce.

I can lead guys on ops and ex in winter anywhere, but not 6 guys up a Welsh hill in summer.

In essence to much beaurocracy and paperwork.

That said I do have a couple of mates who have high level quals and seem to do nothing but expeds...
 
#10
C inG

What a crap reason for wanting adventure training

"raising the profile of our armed forces"

I would have thought been thrashed all over the world on Op after Op and being tabloid fodder could do that

You appear to have missed the point completely

ADVENTURE TRAINING IS ABOUT GIVING THE SOLDIER SOMETHING BACK
Something challenging but enjoyable.

Not effing PR for the powers that be.

This is what is wrong with the system

Pussers W3333R

I'll get back in my cage now
 
#11
Errm, if the only reason for doing expeditions were to "raise the profile of the armed forces" they why, pray, would I have been doing them for years already?

Surely the soldier will feel they have got more back if rather than overtaking some pensioners and schoolkids on a Welsh hill they have done something that no man has ever managed before? I don't know, it probably varies from person to person.

What qualifications are needed? Military ones or civilian ones, or both?

Why do too few people have them?
 
#12
You are missing the point completely

not everyone can scale everest and get in the media

Call it a reward, call it something to look forward to

The expectation of adventure training as a nearly impossible feat accomplished after months of fundraising, planning and done to show the Armed forces in a good light

IS EXACTLY THE CAUSE OF THE LACK OF ADVENTURE TRAINING

Adventure training should be expected and anticipated every year, it shouldn't be force down anyones throat..."you will attend and enjoy"

It should be cracked in armed forces time, but with out the Bull,
And if it involves a little adventure drinking on an evening so much the better. (team building)

More attention required from the Management (as per)

Surely all these raring to go 2nd Lt's out the box could be tasked with the job of cracking some good AT

With a bit of good feed back from the OR's as a reward for a job well done
 
#13
thegimp said:
Surely all these raring to go 2nd Lt's out the box could be tasked with the job of cracking some good AT

With a bit of good feed back from the OR's as a reward for a job well done
You're missing the point entirely. AT should be about giving the soldiers something back..

..ok, ok. I take your points, I didn't really know how the army approaches expeditions and the like. Now I know.
 
#14
The whole AT/ expedition scene has declined over the years. Back in the eighties, I seemed to spend half my life up a mountain/ in a Klepper/ scoffin bugs in the Ulu. But we had the manpower in those days to support a cadre of semi-pro "Indiana Jones" wannabees. Unfortunately, we now have to justify our existence, and turn in a proper days work, or at least appear to. Still, I'm off to the Yucatan peninsula soon, so musnt grumble. :D
 
#15
Rubbish,

For a start it is Adventurous Training (AT). Over the past three years AT has seen a sharp incline with particular emphasis on level 3 overseas expeditions. Even when OP TELIC kicked off AT was still conducted all around the world. Each service has a different spin on what AT should be used for.

The definition of AT is "Challenging outdoor training for Service Personnel in specified adventurous activities, involving controlled exposure to risk, to develop leadership, teamwork, physical fitness, moral and physical courage, among other personal attributes and skills vital to operational capability".

The aim of AT is “To develop through authorised challenging pursuits and within an outdoor environment, leadership and the qualities necessary to enhance the performance of military personnel during peace and war”.

Currently AT within the Army is well funded and open to all. The main problems is lack of education; most people still use as a few weeks on the piss….use it and abuse it like this and guess what…it will disappear.

For all the updates look at www.armynet.mod.uk under top items Adventurous Training website.
 
#16
Admin_Spice said:
Rubbish,

For a start it is Adventurous Training (AT). Over the past three years AT has seen a sharp incline with particular emphasis on level 3 overseas expeditions. Even when OP TELIC kicked off AT was still conducted all around the world. Each service has a different spin on what AT should be used for.

The definition of AT is "Challenging outdoor training for Service Personnel in specified adventurous activities, involving controlled exposure to risk, to develop leadership, teamwork, physical fitness, moral and physical courage, among other personal attributes and skills vital to operational capability".

The aim of AT is “To develop through authorised challenging pursuits and within an outdoor environment, leadership and the qualities necessary to enhance the performance of military personnel during peace and war”.

Currently AT within the Army is well funded and open to all. The main problems is lack of education; most people still use as a few weeks on the urine….use it and abuse it like this and guess what…it will disappear.

For all the updates look at www.armynet.mod.uk under top items Adventurous Training website.
Well, thats us told, shall we get our coats? :roll:
 
#17
What I've found is that very few people get the right quals e.g. JSMEL early enough in their career (unless they're former OCdts). That means that an awful lot of the pers qualified to run Level 3 stuff are pretty senior SNCOs, WOs and field-rank Offrs. Consequently, they are no longer in platoon/troop level jobs which allow them to run low level exercises.

When these guys occasionally manage to get away on jobs (often Regt-level expeds) - they will inevitably be perceived as 'ivory tower'-wallahs with loads of rank. This means that the toms don't identify the quals as being within their reach and consequently don't apply to do the quals early enough in their careers.

I reckon that we (anyone in a management position - i.e. NCO and above) should try and get our lads and lasses to get themselves on these courses as early as possible. I have also found that it's often a nightmare trying to get courses at JSMTC. You send applications in months before the course is due then you don't get any acknowledgement when a place isn't allocated. If people knew there were travelling reserve places then I'm sure they'd send people straight there, but Indy never answer their phones so you never know availability!

PD
 
#18
Plant-Pilot said:
All expeds should be better advertised, not just put on orders between lists of innoculations and the duties list.
You're bang on there PP. Far too often, units receive signals in detailing both last-minute vacancies on qualification courses and requests for exped instructors. Unfortunately that info is rarely passed down quickly enough. It's either ignored and filed, or by the time it goes on orders the bid-by date has passed. Units need to get a grip - cos it's their own guys (i.e. us) who are losing out and consequently the regts have shortfalls in trained personnel. :(
 
#19
While reading this thread and agree with most if not all comments for AT. Sometimes it is up to the individual to pester his seniors about attending. I did this to attend two inter-unit-inter-services canoing comps in Krefeild and as for quals I gained my white water cert at the second, completely failed to win anything but the attending was all (Jnco at the time).

In addition, within 3 weeks of retunring from BAOR in 84 I was in Holland "cruising" onboard the corps yacht.

As I said, pester the bastrds and if you get no joy and NCO level take it higher.

As an idea, if you would like to try sailing there is the ex-British Steel round the world yacht race (now renamed to something else) for the totally inexperienced and Mr Blythe would no doubt help with advice if asked and the services should be able to fund at least 1 leg.

Whatever you do ENJOY as outside, if you don't have the funds you're fcuked and will forever rue the lost chance.

Johno
 
#20
A number of AT opportunities are listed in DCIs, including sailing ones like the one mentioned by Johno. Unfotunately many folks do not have access to DCIs or only hear about the expeds too late.

I will try and keep an eye out for expeds/trips and post (unrestricted) references on this site. Can anybody else with access to DCIs do the same?

Would it be worth me adding a 'sticky' post dedicated entirely to up and coming expeds? Answers on a postcard......

PB
 

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